My idea - A new, more compact Manchester Central.

[Wolfie]

A large part of the reason the "Blue Wall" is in trouble is precisely because all economic development is concentrated in the South-East. Ask the people of South Oxfordshire or Vale of White Horse what they think about their Local Plans with massive house-building programmes. (Or just look at the election results where the Conservative councils were voted out.)

Supporting the north is not necessarily a vote-loser in the south.

Re your last para when "rounding up" in the North often seems to result in reduced expenditure/opportunities in the South it absolutely is. Particularly when many up North seem to positively gloat about that while still expecting the South to pay.

 

[LittleAH]

Re your last para l for one am not prepared to pay for others to have a free ride. I'm not the only one which is why the Blue Wall is in real trouble.....

Why? London and the SE have seen the brain drain from all parts of the UK. They reap the rewards of well educated people who move for work and offer nothing back. We need a realignment of wealth across all regions and countries in the UK.

 

[HSTEd]

Why? London and the SE have seen the brain drain from all parts of the UK. They reap the rewards of well educated people who move for work and offer nothing back. We need a realignment of wealth across all regions and countries in the UK.

At the risk of derailing the thread entirely, the reason why there has been a brain drain into London and into other major cities is not because of some nefarious conspiracy - it's because cities are incredibly attractive places to live.

The economic agglomeration effects of the city are what make those high paying jobs possible, as well as the amenities of city living.
It is extremely difficult to make smaller settlements so attractive, especially as many of them have lost their traditional raison d'etre with the closure of coalfields etc or the mass employment agricultural economy (agriculture has become incredibly labour efficient compared to historical norms).

Fixing this without totalitarian controls on population movement would be exceptionally difficult, perhaps all you could do is a saturation public transport system so that the effective economic metropolis covers the entire country, but simply demanding that jobs be moved to random towns and minor cities in the North is not going to achieve anything.



On the topic of Manchester Central, I have often thought about platforms near that facility, but it probably doesn't free you from the mass of flat junctions that are the real pain of the area in railway terms.

 

[Wolfie]

At the risk of derailing the thread entirely, the reason why there has been a brain drain into London and into other major cities is not because of some nefarious conspiracy - it's because cities are incredibly attractive places to live.

The economic agglomeration effects of the city are what make those high paying jobs possible, as well as the amenities of city living.
It is extremely difficult to make smaller settlements so attractive, especially as many of them have lost their traditional raison d'etre with the closure of coalfields etc or the mass employment agricultural economy (agriculture has become incredibly labour efficient compared to historical norms).

Fixing this without totalitarian controls on population movement would be exceptionally difficult, perhaps all you could do is a saturation public transport system so that the effective economic metropolis covers the entire country, but simply demanding that jobs be moved to random towns and minor cities in the North is not going to achieve anything.



On the topic of Manchester Central, I have often thought about platforms near that facility, but it probably doesn't free you from the mass of flat junctions that are the real pain of the area in railway terms.

Re your second para that was tried in the 60s and 70s - car plants built in Liverpool and Scotland at Govt direction for example - and failed abysmally.

 

[A0]

Re your second para that was tried in the 60s and 70s - car plants built in Liverpool and Scotland at Govt direction for example - and failed abysmally.

Slightly OT - but,

I'm not usually inclined to rush to the defence of either government interference in British industry, nor Murkeyside in general - but I don't think the Liverpool car factories were a failure to be fair.

The Rootes Group (later Chrysler) factory in Linwood was a complete and utter unmitigated disaster - no question. And the government did force Rootes to build it there rather than in the Coventry area as they wanted.

But Merseyside is a bit different - Halewood is still producing cars having been sold by Ford as part of its divestment of Jaguar Land Rover. Vauxhall's plant at Ellesmere Port is still producing cars and has outlasted Luton in that respect. Even the BL / Triumph plants at Speke, though they did close in the early 80s, weren't set up in the same way as Linwood for example.

Standard Triumph actually acquired the factory in Speke when they bought Hall Engineering who were producing part of the bodies for the then new Herald. They did this because BMC (it was pre BL) had bought Fisher and Ludlow (who had made Triumph's bodies previously) and BMC weren't prepared to let them continue to supply Triumph - details here https://www.britainbycar.co.uk/spek...tor Company was,they produced their first car.

Speke's downfall was the government inspired "merger" of BMC and Leyland Motors in 1968 to form British Leyland - that was an unmitigated disaster, but Speke's construction wasn't due to government policies.

 

[Purple Orange]

Andy Burnham wrote an article in the Evening Standard tonight. He mentioned that he was involved in Crossrail as a Treasury Minister and boasts that he ensured that London made a significant contribution. He then seeks support from London/the South East for a Crossrail of the North. What was notably absent was any desire/commitment for Manchester to make a significant contribution......

London should pay for London and also everyone else? Methinks not......

Your point about seeking support from ‘London/the South East’ makes little sense. Who are you talking about here? Westminster? If so, you’re conflating our national government with principally for the benefit of London & the South East, which in itself is a problematic issue.
.

 

[Wolfie]

Your point about seeking support from ‘London/the South East’ makes little sense. Who are you talking about here? Westminster? If so, you’re conflating our national government with principally for the benefit of London & the South East, which in itself is a problematic issue.
.

I am quoting Andy Burnham who wanted MPs from those areas to vote in a specific manner.

Your general comments hardly recognise the distribution of the tax take in UK.