My first ALR

[redcaboose]

Hello everyone.

Around this time of year, my partner visits family overseas, giving me the opportunity to take solo break from the real world. For the past few years I've bought a FOSW rover and by now I'm pretty familiar with the routes and options which that offers.

This time round, I'm thinking of upgrading this experience to an ALR, and have a few questions:

- are the benefits of choosing the first class option worth the extra money?

- does buying the ticket with a senior railcard place any additional restrictions on its availablity, particulary in the early morning on weekdays?

I'd also appreciate any thoughts on itineraries to include, transport museums and other similar places to visit, and good places for reasonably priced overnight breaks.

On the days I return home, I'll be starting from either Bournemouth or Salisbury.

Thank you in advance for helping me out with this.

 

[VT 390]

- are the benefits of choosing the first class option worth the extra money?

It will depend how you use the All Line Rover/what routes you use.
If you use it on lots of services with complimentary catering offerings (the 2 main ones being Avanti and LNER) its possible to easily get close to the difference back. I have done this on most of my All Line Rovers, on my most recent 14 day ALR I did not need to buy any food or drink for the entire 14 days (including at home) as I had more than enough included with first class offerings.
However if you are going to mostly use the ALR on routes with standard class only or seat only first class it would not be good value to get the first class ALR.
Also consider if you can/will make use of first class lounges.
If using it on services with decent first class seating (2+1 layout, larger seats...) the value there will be subjective for you depending how much you value things like individual seats, more leg room, tables at most seats.

 

[Vexed]

For hotels away from Bournemouth/Salisbury, Crewe and Milton Keynes* come to mind as cheap, well connected places on the WCML. The ECML is a bit harder to get sub £40 a night as it's more touristy. In Scotland you'll struggle as well.

The ALR is valid on sleeper trains based on the day of arrival, you can get a jump start away from home on the first day (if you pay separately for travel to London). However the room supplements can be expensive and the seats (included in the ALR) not very comfortable.

*Remember Milton Keynes Central is included in the 10am weekday restriction for boarding Avanti services.

 

[jfollows]

Read and understand https://www.senior-railcard.co.uk/help/railcard-terms-conditions/
There are restrictions on the use of a Senior Railcard in or around London which are in addition to the All Line Rover’s restrictions.

 

[redcaboose]

Thank you to all who have replied so far - this information is useful, and much appreciated.

I'm thinking of treating myself to first class; I've waited a lifetime to do this trip and in any case, it might just be worth it to make the inevitable journeys in crosscountry a little less uncomfortable, with at least a bit better chance of a seat.

Any recommendations on obscure bits of the railway/particular services to try would be most helpful. I'm hoping to get in Settle-Carlisle (which I've never done), and assuming I go for the 1st class option, a trip on the Marches line in a Mk5. I'm considering FW-Mallaig and Inverness-Wick; both of which I've not done. I'm pretty familiar with everything in England west of Swindon from my previous forays with the FOSW rover, so will likely give that a miss this time.

Apart from LNER/Avanti, are there any decent first class meal offerings?

There are restrictions on the use of a Senior Railcard in or around London which are in addition to the All Line Rover’s restrictions.

This is exactly the point I was hoping for some help with.

If I'm making a journey which ends outside the NSE area requiring more than one train, but the first train arrives at the interchange point before 10am, am I still travelling within the validity of the ticket?

For example, leaving Salisbury on an early train to change at Exeter Central (arriving before 10am) for Barnstaple.

Or Bournemouth to Norwich, with a tube transfer in London using contactless.

Another perhaps more likely one is getting an early train from either Salisbury or Bournemouth to catch the 10am LNER heading north (I'm assuming that train is outside the 'no LNER from KX before 10am' restriction?)

 

[stuartn]

For the Senior Railcard in the NSE area I tend to check the Northern Rail website as that crosses out the full fare, and gives the Senior Railcard fare, so is a very easy way of checking, and finding out the easements.
So in the above examples the ALR would be valid from Salisbury to Exeter via Bath as early as you like (as on GWR) but not on the SWR direct trains until 1000.

Bournemouth to Norwich there seems to be a Senior Railcard easement as it is showing validity on all Waterloo trains from start of service from Bournemouth, at 0507, and neither Waterloo or Liverpool Street have the 10am restriction, as Norwich is outside NSE land you can use the 0507 from Bournemouth then the 0830 from Liverpool Street to Norwich arrive 1018.
On the XC trains north from Bournemouth to Birmingham Northern are showing some real oddities- Senior Railcard is valid on the 0507 change at Southampton but not the 0630 direct.

I did a 14 day 1st class ALR in May, and for the first week I stayed each night at the Station Hotel in Carlisle, as they have very reasonable rates, and I can fall out of bed onto the station platform. Staying in Carlisle that would allow you to do the evening Chathill train for instance (or there is a good Wetherspoons hotel very close to Newcastle Central station). For East Anglia the Wetherspoons hotel at March is also very useful and well priced. For South and West Wales try the Wetherspoons hotel at Bridgend and for the north of Scotland at Inverness.

Last year on the ALR I found the seats on the Night Riviera useful to cover Devon and Cornwall in a time effective manner.

If you stayed in Carlisle you could get the early 0550 down the Cumbrian coast. The Whitehaven to Corkickle connection on that service is the only one of the day to use a bus (from Workington Transport Heritage), not a coach (provided by KT's of Kendal). Off that 0550 you can connect at Barrow and Carnforth for Skipton, then the 1127 up the S and C. The Barrow connection looks tight, but Barrow do hold if the train from Corkickle is slightly late.
Likewise in the evening the last Cumbrian coast north at 1904 is held for almost as long as needed if the 1629 from Manchester Airport is late- I've known it held for up to 20 minutes.

 

[stuartn]

Oh, and Chathill now has a bus service from Alnwick, connecting with the two daily trains. So the way I would suggest doing Chathill is LNER to Alnmouth, transfer to Alnwick by bus then the bus 418 at 1725, arrives Chathill at 1835.
From Carlisle on Avanti the catering crew changes at Preston, and it is a slick change over. So I almost invariably get two breakfasts- one out of Carlisle, and one out of Preston.

 

[sh24]

If you are going to use a bunch of long haul routes with First class then it makes sense. The extra space and relative peace and quiet makes things much more enjoyable. A few free snacks helps with the cost benefit ratio but wouldn't drive the decision for me.

 

[WestAnglian]

For the Senior Railcard in the NSE area I tend to check the Northern Rail website as that crosses out the full fare, and gives the Senior Railcard fare, so is a very easy way of checking, and finding out the easements.
So in the above examples the ALR would be valid from Salisbury to Exeter via Bath as early as you like (as on GWR) but not on the SWR direct trains until 1000.

I'm not sure this correct and would like a definitive answer, if any of the experts are around. Long journeys (starting/finishing outside the NSE area) are exempt from senior railcard restrictions, and a Rover can always be considered such a journey, can't it? For example a journey from London to Plymouth is always OK with the railcard, whichever route is taken. I live in the NSE area and by necessity begin my rovers by travelling to Liverpool St. or Cambridge. If travelling on a single or return ticket the railcard would be invalid but nobody has ever questioned my use of an ALR.

 

[mrcheek]

First Class is absolutely recommended. Regardless of the food and drink freebies, on some busy peak time trains, its the only way you will get a seat!
Other advice (speaking as someone who has done 15 two week All Line Rovers in my time), make sure you plan every single days travel. Always have a back up plan. And never rely on using the last train of the day!

 

[jfollows]

I'm not sure this correct and would like a definitive answer, if any of the experts are around. Long journeys (starting/finishing outside the NSE area) are exempt from senior railcard restrictions, and a Rover can always be considered such a journey, can't it? For example a journey from London to Plymouth is always OK with the railcard, whichever route is taken. I live in the NSE area and by necessity begin my rovers by travelling to Liverpool St. or Cambridge. If travelling on a single or return ticket the railcard would be invalid but nobody has ever questioned my use of an ALR.

The text in the terms and conditions is clear, and unenforceable on an all line rover because the holder can always say their final destination is outside the NSE area even if it isn’t. Nobody is going to care much anyway, and most staff don’t have a clue about the all line rover.

4.2. Discounts are not available on tickets for travel on morning peak services for journeys that start and end within the London & South East area (defined by the Network Railcard area) on Monday to Friday (except on public holidays). The time when off-peak services start can vary by station. Use nationalrail.co.uk to plan your journey to identify when off-peak services start or ask rail staff for details.

 

[Vexed]

First Class is absolutely recommended. Regardless of the food and drink freebies, on some busy peak time trains, its the only way you will get a seat!
Other advice (speaking as someone who has done 15 two week All Line Rovers in my time), make sure you plan every single days travel. Always have a back up plan. And never rely on using the last train of the day!

I'd agree with all of this, but I'd just add that you sometimes will end needing backup backup plans! Replan on the move if needed as other late trains might make things possible that originally weren't.

I was always able to get a seat in first class on my recent 7 day and I only made a couple of reservations. You might struggle on Avanti at the weekend as they usually have only one coach of first class, the host might be happy to serve you from Standard Premium though.

 

[VT 390]

I'm thinking of treating myself to first class; I've waited a lifetime to do this trip and in any case, it might just be worth it to make the inevitable journeys in crosscountry a little less uncomfortable, with at least a bit better chance of a seat.

Where you are relatively certain you will use a particular service I would still recommended reserving a seat.
Especially on LNER as they generally have high occupancy of first class, LNER even have a free reservation tool on their website where you can pick the exact seat you want.
Cross Country can get very busy in first class and Avanti on weekends only have 18 first class seats in carriage K on Pendolino services.

and assuming I go for the 1st class option, a trip on the Marches line in a Mk5.

Slight correction, Transport for Wales use Mk4 not Mk5.
If you do mean Mk5 specifically Chiltern Railways operate Mk5A carriages on some Birmingham Moor Street to London Marylebone services (these have good first class seats but no catering), otherwise its the Caledonian Sleeper for Mk5.

I'm considering FW-Mallaig and Inverness-Wick; both of which I've not done. I'm pretty familiar with everything in England west of Swindon from my previous forays with the FOSW rover, so will likely give that a miss this time.

The Mallaig and Wick are both great journeys but considering there going to realistically take a day each out of your rover may not be the best value option on an ALR ticket, especially in first class as these are all standard class only.
Also consider at this time of year it will start getting darker earlier in the evenings so you may be best off waiting to do these routes in the summer months.

Apart from LNER/Avanti, are there any decent first class meal offerings?

LNER (especially Signature menu services) and Avanti have the best complimentary meal options.

Transport for Wales (as you mentioned earlier) have very good first class dining including both Breakfast and full 3 course meals but these are paid extra, though are definitely worth it in my opinion. You get tea, coffee, water, orange juice, shortbread, crisps as complimentary offerings as well.

GWR Pullman Dining is another paid extra (and quite expensive compared to TfW) but is worth trying at least once if you have not done it before. Anyone can dine if space permits but first class ticket holders can reserve a place before travelling.
All other GWR services do not offer full meal options but do have a good range of snacks and offer pastries/porridge on weekday mornings.

TransPennine Express on their Coast to Coast (Liverpool to Newcastle) and West Coast Kitchen (Manchester to Glasgow/Edinburgh) have decent complimentary meal offerings. Though do check timings as not all Coast to Coast services have catering and some early morning Glasgow West Coast services do not have the full offer.

While not a substantial meal I find the Hull Trains morning breakfast rolls quite good. Hull Trains rest of day offering while basic (wraps/sandwiches) has always been consistent and I have enjoyed using it.

Cross Country can be good but it is very inconsistent as to what offering you will get, do not rely on what is advertised in the timetable. I have found it difficult to get their full meal offering on many routes (for me the most reliable has been Edinburgh to Leeds section of the route) and even then the XC first class offering I find to be to a much lower standard (in terms of options and availability) compared to Avanti/LNER complimentary offerings.

East Midlands Railway offer breakfast rolls/sandwiches on weekdays and snackboxes on weekends/some weekday services, I would not consider these a substantial meal but if you are using other services can be a good fill in option between more significant offerings.


If you were to use the Caledonian Sleeper I find their food offering decent, though it is a paid extra and relatively expensive for what you get (breakfast is included in Club/Double).


For completeness other operators that have complimentary food/drink offerings but that I would not consider full meals are:
Grand Central (tea/coffee/water/snacks)
Greater Anglia most Norwich to London weekdays only (tea/coffee/water/biscuits)
ScotRail most Intercity routes but not all services (tea/coffee/water/biscuits)

 

[bspahh]

Personally, I would check the price of an Interrail ticket. The current prices are at

Interrail Global Pass for Europe

The Interrail Global Pass is the fun and cheap way to see more of Europe. Travel to up to 33 countries with one train Pass!

www.interrail.com

Last year they had a Black Friday sale at the end of November with a 25% discounts. I bought a ticket for 14 days first class travel within 2 months for just over £500.

With an Interrail ticket, you need to pay extra for a reservation. The main ones are €35 each way for a Eurostar ticket. TGV trains within France cost €10 if you book early enough or €20 after that. Reservations are ~ €30 for TGVs that cross borders.
Seat61 has more detail on these

Swiss trains are fantastic with an Interrail pass - you don't need reservations, and they are interesting, frequent, reliable and have fantastic scenery. A cheap way to get to Switzerland is by Eurostar to Paris or Lille, TGV to Strasbourg and then you can use local trains for free to get to Basel, and from there you can be in the mountains within a couple of hours.