Most Disappointing Rolling Stock.

[Goldfish62]

The only way that the Voyager would have been a great train is if its original design plans had been shredded into a thousand pieces, turned into an enormous bonfire with the ashes sunk to the bottom of the ocean.

I agree. If ever there was a train utterly devoid of any redeeming features.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I'm not talking about services where you know the carriage is going to be bad. We all know a Voyager is probably going to be a disappointing experience.

I'm talking about where you expect the service to be better.

For me, it's Electrostars with the crappy high density layout. Nasty thin seats that mainly line up with the pillars rather than the windows. I don't mind the ones where the crappy layout is only in the middle two carriages but with decent seating in the outer two so much.

To cap it all, the windows don't appear to have seen a carriage washer since David Cameron was Prime Minister.

I know what you mean about that Electrostar layout.

I find that the class 374 Eustostars are a bit crap. You’ve got to be really careful when booking considering so many seats seem to line up with the wall. Also, the new SWR Arterio trains. Their seats make Azuma seats feel like your grandpa’s armchair. The design of sadists. Thankfully I don’t have to use SWR that much these days but if I was a regular commuter I’d be lodging a serious complaint.

 

[Goldfish62]

I know what you mean about that Electrostar layout.

I find that the class 374 Eustostars are a bit crap. You’ve got to be really careful when booking considering so many seats seem to line up with the wall. Also, the new SWR Arterio trains. Their seats make Azuma seats feel like your grandpa’s armchair. The design of sadists. Thankfully I don’t have to use SWR that much these days but if I was a regular commuter I’d be lodging a serious complaint.

I use the Arterios a couple of times a week for journeys of up to an hour and find the seats acceptable in the context of modern train seating. Certainly better than on the late Electrostars and 700s. At least some effort has been made to improve the seat cushion profiles.

The seats on the Azumas and IETs really are as bad as it gets for long distance journeys, or even short journeys.

 

[Tetragon213]

Voyagers had the potential to be a great train.

If they were 7-9 cars with better leg room and a better mix of table to airline seats they would have been wonderful.

As it is, if you’re anything over above average height the leg-room is purgatorial and they’re often packed to the gills. Families can forget travelling together as a group unless they can grab one of the two tables per standard carriage.

Imo, if the whole fleet had an extra coach by default, and assuming someone redesigned the toilet tank/exhaust/brake resistors to avoid the toilet smell issue from ever being a thing in the first place, they had the potential to be very well loved indeed.

XC's refusal to deal with overcrowding or basic product improvement has ruined their reputation forever.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Imo, if the whole fleet had an extra coach by default, and assuming someone redesigned the toilet tank/exhaust/brake resistors to avoid the toilet smell issue from ever being a thing in the first place, they had the potential to be very well loved indeed.

XC's refusal to deal with overcrowding or basic product improvement has ruined their reputation forever.

And they didn't have a tilt profile. And they had acceptable legroom. And seats weren't so badly aligned to windows. And there wasn't vibration from the engines. And there was enough luggage space.

I used to find the acceleration exciting before they remapped the software to tone it down a bit (it was originally a bit like a plane taking off) but aside from that there is a LOT wrong with them. The 222s fix some but not all of the issues.

The capacity issue is the Government, not XC. They won't fund it.

 

[Tetragon213]

And they didn't have a tilt profile. And they had acceptable legroom. And seats weren't so badly aligned to windows. And there wasn't vibration from the engines. And there was enough luggage space.

I used to find the acceleration exciting before they remapped the software to tone it down a bit (it was originally a bit like a plane taking off) but aside from that there is a LOT wrong with them. The 222s fix some but not all of the issues.

The capacity issue is the Government, not XC. They won't fund it.

I don't hold the tilt profile against them. I've also never noticed the legroom to be a problem (though in fairness, I'm also the type who has never considered it an issue even on the Class 159s). Window alignment seems no worse than it is on the Pendolinos. As for engine vibration, again, maybe it's because I'm used to DMUs but it's not been unbearable for me. Regarding luggage, that's fair.

My only real bugbears have been the overcrowding and strange toilet problems.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't hold the tilt profile against them.

I do, my shoulders press against it.

I've also never noticed the legroom to be a problem (though in fairness, I'm also the type who has never considered it an issue even on the Class 159s).

You're short then (or at least have a short femur). It's not even slightly acceptable for an intercity train doing journeys of eight hours plus (and the 158/159 are terrible, particularly the recent refurbs which thicken the cushions by a few inches). The 80x are wildly better in both regards here.

Even for shorter people more legroom is advantageous on this sort of train - you commonly see "old grannies" and the likes who can't lift their bag into the overhead put it by their knees on 80x instead. That frees up space in the stacks.

Window alignment seems no worse than it is on the Pendolinos.

That's fair, or the 80x.

As for engine vibration, again, maybe it's because I'm used to DMUs but it's not been unbearable for me.

I don't find it unbearable but it isn't as nice as not having it.

Regarding luggage, that's fair.

My only real bugbears have been the overcrowding and strange toilet problems.

Overall I think they were a fair first go at a 125mph DEMU when that hadn't been done before (though 180s were better for passengers they were also really unreliable) but it's time for them to go as they have too many flaws.

 

[Mogz]

I agree. If ever there was a train utterly devoid of any redeeming features.

Not even those nice big windows? Coach D on the Avanti version shows just how nice they could have been…

 

[Goldfish62]

Not even those nice big windows? Coach D on the Avanti version shows just how nice they could have been…

Fair comment. OK, the windows.

 

[Busman]

Aventra - not as nice to use as Electrostars, and dislike the longer carriages. To me they feel a step down from the 375/377/387 fleets.

Agreed 100%. I have that rather bizarre journey period where I jump on a Southern 377 (1-4 variants, not the hideous 6/7) and then head to Essex on Greater Anglia 720.

Whilst the 720s are relatively comfortable and have a decent ambience, they sacrificed gangway space to ensure the middle seat in 3+2 formation has that extra inch to make it more confortable.

And I am still not feeling the Aventra's front.

 

[tfw756rider]

And I am still not feeling the Aventra's front.

What do you mean?

 

[bramling]

Agreed 100%. I have that rather bizarre journey period where I jump on a Southern 377 (1-4 variants, not the hideous 6/7) and then head to Essex on Greater Anglia 720.

Whilst the 720s are relatively comfortable and have a decent ambience, they sacrificed gangway space to ensure the middle seat in 3+2 formation has that extra inch to make it more confortable.

And I am still not feeling the Aventra's front.

There’s a few other things I dislike about the Aventra fleets. Firstly the 5-cars on GA essentially means you get the situation where a 5-car train is tight for space, on what hitherto might have been something like 8/321 or 8/360. I also find it counter-intuitive having the accessible spaces at the ends of the train, you’d think they would more logically be in a middle car. So for me the Aventra offers nothing over the classic 4-car Electrostar, even those with the hard seats. In fact I’d say it doesn’t really offer anything over a 365 or even a 465.