More Oyster on Buses

[bicbasher]

There appears to be different methods of RPI inspection techniques when I've been on London's buses.

1. An RPI in uniform.

2. A duo in plain clothes, one would go upstairs with the other going upstairs. The downstairs RPI would join their colleague upstairs if required.

3. A blitz of RPI's and members of the police at a bus stop on high frequency routes. This was common practice on the articulated routes who had higher fare evasion rates.

 

[W230]

It would be interesting to know just how much operations like this cost, and how much lost revenue (if any) is recouped. There is also the delay to bus services, surely any ticket checks should take place on the move?

Its likely that their very existence will help recoup otherwise lost revenue as it's possibe more people wouldn't buy a ticket if they knew they were no inspectors whatsoever.

 

[Be3G]

Forty Hill (on the W10 !!)

Was this a few years back? If so I don't think it was your ticket that was being inspected per se – instead, I believe TfL staff were carrying out a survey of passengers and their ticket types as there was once a plan to increase the service. (Presumably, if they found lots of paying passengers it would have made more of a case for a service increase compared to the W10's usual Freedom-Pass-wielding demographic.) I confused the TfL inspector-cum-survey-type-person when I mentioned that I had a railcard on my Oyster… then again if I'm barking up the wrong tree then fair enough; I just find it incredible that TfL would ever bother inspecting the W10!

Alas, the service increase never went ahead.

It would be interesting to know just how much operations like this cost, and how much lost revenue (if any) is recouped. There is also the delay to bus services, surely any ticket checks should take place on the move? Oh and I really cannot imagine any inspectors "dragging perpetrators off":roll:

Admittedly, the comment about dragging people off the bus was rhetorical and not to be taken literally. But for all intents and purposes, the actions of the inspectors aren't that different to what I described: several of them all get on one bus, with police standing outside, and if anyone is found with an ‘irregularity’ the bus won't move until the offender is off the bus and the police are speaking to them. Your comment about delays is pertinent though… I once briefly held up a bus due to this because I was in the middle of a phone call, and my Oyster was in my phone case; only once I realised what was going on did I hang up. I apologised and the inspector was friendly about it, but I was embarrassed!

 

[Deerfold]

Was this a few years back? If so I don't think it was your ticket that was being inspected per se – instead, I believe TfL staff were carrying out a survey of passengers and their ticket types as there was once a plan to increase the service. (Presumably, if they found lots of paying passengers it would have made more of a case for a service increase compared to the W10's usual Freedom-Pass-wielding demographic.) I confused the TfL inspector-cum-survey-type-person when I mentioned that I had a railcard on my Oyster… then again if I'm barking up the wrong tree then fair enough; I just find it incredible that TfL would ever bother inspecting the W10!

Alas, the service increase never went ahead.

Whist it's possible this was an additional survey, there's a survey on every route at least once approximately once every 5 years. Staff will count boarders and leavers at each stop as well as giving questionnaires to passengers to try and see if there are many people making the same journey and if changes in route to help them would be useful.

If they were checking tickets that sounds more like a routine revenue protection exercise.

 

[Be3G]

Oh yes, I've encountered a couple of those normal surveys on my local buses (the 121 and 279). The scenario I described with the W10 was neither quite that nor a normal ticket checking routine either. If memory serves, what happened precisely was I boarded the W10 and touched in with my Oyster, noticed a couple of TfL people chatting on the back seat, and thought nothing more of it. Once I was sat down, one of them then came over to ask what sort of Oyster card/product I'd used (e.g. bus pass, travelcard, with/without bus & tram discount etc.) – note he was just asking generally, not requesting to check my ticket – and I said it was a PAYG Oyster with railcard. He went back to his friend, then came back a couple of minutes later to ask for some info (in a friendly, inquisitive way) as he'd not heard of the railcard facility. There were none of the normal survey forms handed out.

The main reason, though, that I suspect it was an ad-hoc passenger usage survey was because at a similar time I had heard/read that TfL were pondering a service increase for the W10. (There're only 27 buses an hour day week!) And not too long after I witnessed the above, I e-mailed asking if such a service increase would be taking place; TfL replied to say that they'd investigated the possibility but decided it couldn't be justified.

(As an aside, the W10 really must be London's friendliest bus…)

 

[Deerfold]

The main reason, though, that I suspect it was an ad-hoc passenger usage survey was because at a similar time I had heard/read that TfL were pondering a service increase for the W10. (There're only 27 buses an hour day week!) And not too long after I witnessed the above, I e-mailed asking if such a service increase would be taking place; TfL replied to say that they'd investigated the possibility but decided it couldn't be justified.

(As an aside, the W10 really must be London's friendliest bus…)

That does sound like an unusual one.

The W10 is an odd one - few routes have twice as many buses on a Saturday as on a Monday to Friday.

 

[bicbasher]

TfL have done paper surveys on all my local bus routes, the most recent being earlier this year on a high frequency double decker route.

In every instance the first survey worker stands behind the drivers cab, hands the survey to the passenger, while the other is at the exit to collect.

The other method has been similar to a RPI, they ask to see your Oyster card and sometimes have Oyster readers which gives the impression they're RPI's, then ask the same questions as the paper surveys into a tablet.

 

[Be3G]

The W10 is an odd one - few routes have twice as many buses on a Saturday as on a Monday to Friday.

I think it's because the W10 used to run (and maybe still does run) as a ‘borrowed’ bus from the 299, so I assume that because of Mon-Fri peaks it is/was only spare for a few hours on those days.

The other method has been similar to a RPI, they ask to see your Oyster card and sometimes have Oyster readers which gives the impression they're RPI's, then ask the same questions as the paper surveys into a tablet.

Hmm, that has echoes of what I've been describing about the W10 – perhaps there was a tablet with answers being filled in and I didn't notice, though this was a few years ago (back before iPads etc. were so commonplace). Now I think about it the W10 ‘interviewer’*did ask me where I was getting off…

 

[badassunicorn]

there was a inspector on the 86 the other day, was standing in plain clothes chatting to the driver as people got on, I thought he was just another driver or his mate or something, then once we set off he came and checked everyones oysters who had just got on. Examined a girls photocard as well, I was quite surprised to see one on that bus, especially at 0530!

 

[paddington]

Was this a few years back? If so I don't think it was your ticket that was being inspected per se – instead, I believe TfL staff were carrying out a survey of passengers and their ticket types as there was once a plan to increase the service. (Presumably, if they found lots of paying passengers it would have made more of a case for a service increase compared to the W10's usual Freedom-Pass-wielding demographic.) I confused the TfL inspector-cum-survey-type-person when I mentioned that I had a railcard on my Oyster… then again if I'm barking up the wrong tree then fair enough; I just find it incredible that TfL would ever bother inspecting the W10!

No, it was an actual inspection; in fact, a pensioner was "caught out" because he didn't realise his freedom pass had not been touched properly and the driver can't be bothered to shout at them to try again since they are legit 99.9% of the time. I believe the inspector had just come from the 191 and was waiting for another one to go back to Enfield, but the W10 came first.

 

[Be3G]

Ah fair enough. As far as I'm aware most of the W10's passengers seem to be elderly and on first-name terms with the drivers so I'd be surprised if anyone has ever boarded that bus with an invalid ticket! I hope the inspector wasn't too harsh on the person with the not-touched-in Freedom pass as the pass was surely still valid.

 

[Sprinter]

I think it's because the W10 used to run (and maybe still does run) as a ‘borrowed’ bus from the 299, so I assume that because of Mon-Fri peaks it is/was only spare for a few hours on those days.

The W10 is now standalone, no interworking with other routes. The W10s bus used to come from the W6 (which First lost to Arriva), it is the 389/399 that uses an off-peak bus off the 299 (and still does).

 

[Be3G]

Interesting… so it might be a bit easier (i.e. cheaper) for TfL now to give it an expanded service, on Mondays to Fridays at least, if they could be persuaded to. It'd be nice to be able to spend longer than two hours in Crews Hill!

 

[PermitToTravel]

Ah fair enough. As far as I'm aware most of the W10's passengers seem to be elderly and on first-name terms with the drivers so I'd be surprised if anythat bus with an invalid ticket! I hope the inspector wasn't too harsh on the person with the not-touched-in Freedom pass as the pass was surely still valid.

My understanding is that it is *technically* not valid as a Freedom Pass, as TfL's T&Cs mandate touching in. However, it is still valid as an English National Concessionary Travel Scheme pass, which only needs to be shown to the driver. TfL's instructions to drivers state to wave passengers on if their Freedom Pass does not work, or if they show an ENCTS pass from anywhere outside London, or even if a passenger's disabilities cause them to struggle with the Oyster reader (visually impaired, learning difficulties, etc). It is extremely unusual that the RPI was unhappy that a Freedom Pass was not touched.

 

[NathanPrior]

Around a month ago I encountered 9 RPI's within 4 days around Bromley/Eltham/Lewisham/Peckham. I hadn't seen one for a few months then they just magically pop up. I had one today as well, first one in about 3 weeks.

I don't even get asked to show my photocard half the time.

 

[34D]

I sometimes drive buses in another part of England, and every so often (depending on my mood) I check all ENCTS passes manually, rather than just relying on the ITSO reader.

I found a lady using her husbands card. Abuse from people in their 50s using _their_ parents card seems to occur.

 

[jon0844]

I am always amazed that people of a certain age are considered to be incapable of breaking rules and trying it on like everyone else, especially if they always used to do it.

 

[Flamingo]

I am always amazed that people of a certain age are considered to be incapable of breaking rules and trying it on like everyone else, especially if they always used to do it.

A wise old woman once told me that nasty old people were once nasty young people.

 

[paddington]

Just to clarify, all that happened on the W10 was the RPI asked the old geezer to listen more carefully for the single higher pitched beep in the future, and she then took his FP and touched it on the reader for him...