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The Midland Mainline hasn’t had much luck today. A fatality in the Elstree and Borehamwood area at 6am this morning followed immediately by a signal failure at Kentish Town has pretty much thrown reliability out the window today
Service has failed to recover from earlier and now EMR services are starting/finishing at West Hampstead Thameslink due to flooding in St Pancras EMR platforms.
It seems that there are too many point failures, signal failures and overhead wire failures recently, looks like some maintenance department managers need to be asked.
It was a complete shambles at West Hampstead Thameslink. Because St Pancras was flooded all EMT trains are terminating/starting there and running ECS to St Pancras with people told to use Thameslink in/out of London.
Platform 4 at West Hampstead is totally unsuited to being the sole departure platform for Corby, Nott, Sheff etc. Narrow and no shelter.
Result. Hordes of Sheffield/Nott pax camped on footbridge stairs. Then a Bedford train arrives and there is damn near a crush as people try and get down the stairs to get on it (and fail - the train didn't wait) and alighting pax try and get off. It was very dangerous.
There was also no information for passengers other than the CIS diaplays that showed EMT departures with Thameslink as if they stop there every day with passengers milling about confused all over the footbridge as a result.
Whovever thought that was a good idea should be on a form 1.
If you are going to do that then do at St Albans where the platform is rather wider, all the Thameslink services call, not just some of them and there are lots more staff including platform dispatchers.
Apparently this is going on until close of play. I just pray everyone gets home in one piece.
But also where there’s no underground connection or easy access to trains heading almost immediately through the core. Most people on southbound EMRs heading into London want onward connections rather than doubling back towards Bedford and would prefer to be taken to WHT than dumped at St Albans.
Equally those heading north wouldn’t be too impressed if they were forced to go all the way to St Albans on a severely reduced, slower and overcrowded GTR service as was running this pm.
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There was also no information for passengers other than the CIS diaplays that showed EMT departures with Thameslink as if they stop there every day with passengers milling about confused all over the footbridge as a result.
So in other words the departure boards were correctly displaying the departures from that station for both EMR and GTR. Would you rather have not had the EMR departures shown at all?!
But also where there’s no underground connection or easy access to trains heading almost immediately through the core. Most people on southbound EMRs heading into London want onward connections rather than doubling back towards Bedford and would prefer to be taken to WHT than dumped at St Albans.
Equally those heading north wouldn’t be too impressed if they were forced to go all the way to St Albans on a severely reduced, slower and overcrowded GTR service as was running this pm.
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So in other words the departure boards were correctly displaying the departures from that station for both EMR and GTR. Would you rather have not had the EMR departures shown at all?!
Some additional staff here to assist might have good or at leaat some bl**dy PA announcements.
However the key point is that expecting the entire evening peak EMT service passengers to assemble pn Platform 4 at West Hampstead which is very narrow virtually throughought while continuing to stop some London to Bedford trains there and having no crowd control measures is Effingham Junctionally Dangerous.
The 360s were mothballed for the day, so many EMR Bedford passengers would likely have been going to WHT anyway to catch GTR services, so no way of avoiding that (other than the suggestion of running EMR trains all the way to St Albans/Harpenden which is highly inconvenient).
The TL service has been been struggling for most of the day.
Some additional staff here to assist might have good or at leaat some bl**dy PA announcements.
However the key point is that expecting the entire evening peak EMT service passengers to assemble pn Platform 4 at West Hampstead which is very narrow virtually throughought while continuing to stop some London to Bedford trains there and having no crowd control measures is Effingham Junctionally Dangerous.
EMR have no say in the decision to put Bedford GTR trains through the fasts, to be fair. The crowd control isn’t really something they can do much about either. It didn’t look overly busy to me when I went through during the early pm peak, I suggest you’re exaggerating.
And to be fair, if they don't go through West Hampstead on the fast lines, the semi-fast Thameslink services would have to weave from/to the slow lines at Radlett or Harpenden so going to be further delayed amongst the stoppers. It's not ideal, but there isn't really an "ideal" solution when STP is closed on the Midland.
The 360s were mothballed for the day, so EMR Bedford passengers would have been going to WHT anyway to catch GTR services, so no way of avoiding that (other than the suggestion of running EMR trains all the way to St Albans/Harpenden which is highly inconvenient).
The TL service has been been struggling for most of the day.
Any EMR passengers for Bedford would have been going to St Pancras Low Level.
The Thameslink Bedford service was in trouble this morning but was what LUL would describe as "minor delays" this evening. It was the GN Thameslink service that had big problems this evening.
EMR have no say in the decision to put Bedford GTR trains through the fasts, to be fair. The crowd control isn’t really something they can do much about either. It didn’t look overly busy to me when I went through during the early pm peak.
There is about one member of staff on the barrer and one in the ticket office at WH Thameslink.
If they can't do anything about the crowd control then they shouldn't stop the EMT services there.
They shut the platforms at St Pancras due to not safe as too wet but thought it was fine and safe to expect the entire EMT evening peak passengers for all stations between Wellingborough & Sheffield to get a Thameslink from St P low level to West Hampstead then try and cross to narrow platform 4 and gather there.
When you went through it might have not looked too bad, probably becauae it was belting with rain and the platform has no shelter so vast numbers of people were standing on the footbridge stairs and labding, causing a crush resulting in people missing trains as they couldn't get down the footbridge in time.
As you allude to, stopping two Thameslinks an hour on the platform (and presumably whizzing the other two through at line speed) was the icing on the cake as then people were trying to get off and up said footbridge stairs as well.
I thought all such fall back measures were supposed to be planned with risk assessments in place.
If you had been on that platform and footbridge earlier you would not glibly be accusing me of exaggeration.
There could very easily have been a crush or passengers fallen under a train this evening.
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And to be fair, if they don't go through West Hampstead on the fast lines, the semi-fast Thameslink services would have to weave from/to the slow lines at Radlett or Harpenden so going to be further delayed amongst the stoppers. It's not ideal, but there isn't really an "ideal" solution when STP is closed on the Midland.
Hence why I suggested they should have run northbound EMR trains ECS to St Albans instead of St Pancras.
1) Much Wider down fast platform.
2) Platform staff on all platforms
3) ALL thameslink trains on the route stop there (10+ an hour).
WH could cope with southbound EMR trains terminating on pl3 (the wide pl 2/3 island), but even with only southbound trains terminating, EMR should have dispatched some of their staff pronto from Closed St Pan High Level to WH to assist passengers.
If there’s no EMR service from Pancras you’d find a good number would head straight for WHT as the Jubilee line goes directly there with no need to change for St Pancras.
The Thameslink Bedford service was in trouble this morning but was what LUL would describe as "minor delays" this evening. It was the GN Thameslink service that had big problems this evening.
If they can't do anything about the crowd control then they shouldn't stop the EMT services there.
They shut the platforms at St Pancras due to not safe as too wet but thought it was fine and safe to expect the entire EMT evening peak passengers to Wellingborough to get a Thameslink from low level to West hampstead then try and cross to narrow platform 4 and gather there.
Clearly not ideal but this was an attempt to actually do something to benefit their passengers rather than running to the railway’s own convenience (as we’re so often accused on here of doing!).
When you went through it might have not looked too bad, probably becauae it was belting with rain and the platform has no shelter so vast numbers of people were standing on the footbridge stairs and labding, causing a crush resulting in people missing trains as they couldn't get down the footbridge in time.
As you allude to, stopping two Thameslinks an hour on the platform (and presumably whizzing the other two through at line speed) was the icing on the cake as then people were trying to get off and up said footbridge stairs as well.
Well perhaps when you were there it was during a downpour. The rain wasn’t consistent and it wasn’t raining particularly hard when I went through.
As I say not EMR’s decision to run through at linespeed - albeit I refuse to believe these platforms were dangerously overcrowded. They were probably crowded to 2019 levels, which people are no longer used to.
Are there any reports on the log of dangerously overcrowded platforms at WHT today? If so I’ll agree with you.
I’m sure it was risk assessed and deemed perfectly safe when it was identified as a contingency arrangement. As I say it was making the best of a degraded situation and trying to minimise inconvenience to passengers.
Not a great platform either, frankly, very narrow around the footbridge. Plus, as noted, you’d still have had lots of EMR and GTR passengers on the platform at WHT heading north.
Today was an *extremely* difficult day for the MML and EMR passengers (and staff) in particular. It seems more than a little harsh to suggest these arrangements were dangerous, deserving of anyone being sacked or implying that they weren’t risk assessed!
If there’s no EMR service from Pancras you’d find a good number would head straight for WHT as the Jubilee line goes directly there with no need to change for St Pancras.
Accepted.
Clearly not ideal but this was an attempt to actually do something to benefit their passengers rather than running to the railway’s own convenience (as we’re so often accused on here of doing!).
Well perhaps when you were there it was during a downpour. The rain wasn’t consistent and it wasn’t raining particularly hard when I went through.
As I say not EMR’s decision to run through at linespeed - albeit I refuse to believe these platforms were dangerously overcrowded. They were probably crowded to 2019 levels, which people are no longer used to.
I’m sure it was risk assessed and deemed perfectly safe. As I say it was making the best of a degraded situation and trying to minimise inconvenience to passengers.
Not a great platform either, frankly, very narrow around the footbridge. Plus, as noted, you’d still have had lots of EMR and GTR passengers on the platform at WHT heading north.
Today was an *extremely* difficult day for the MML and EMR passengers in particular. It seems more than a little harsh to suggest these arrangements were dangerous, deserving of anyone being sacked or implying that they weren’t risk assessed!
Sorry but you just seem to be trying to defend the indefensible.
I have tried to draw attention to what to my mind is a cardinal near miss, in the hope that someone will read it, take note and feed back so it dosent happen again, but as all to often in this forum have come up with Pravda type defensiveness.
That said it is those who don't argue to the last ditch who will silently note and hopefully act.
Edit. A screenshot of twitter pax comments sbout the lack of staff and info at West Hampstead.
Sorry but you just seem to be trying to defend the indefensible.
I have tried to draw attention to what to my mind is a cardinal near miss, in the hope that someone will read it, take note and feed back so it dosent happen again, but as all to often in this forum have come up with Pravda type defensiveness.
That saidl it is those who don't argue to the last ditch who will silently note and hopefully act.
Sorry but I’ve not seen any evidence of a “near miss”, including what I saw with my own eyes at that location earlier.
I find it highly unlikely every EMR and GTR train driver passing through a dangerously overcrowded platform failed to report it?
Where are the log reports of dangerous overcrowding that you claim to have witnessed? If you saw something dangerous you should certainly act, what steps have you taken to report it?!
If you work for the railway and witnessed dangerous overcrowding why didn’t you call West Hampstead box and ask them to caution trains?
EDIT: Twitter complaints (which are understandable given the issues today) notably also not mentioning dangerous overcrowding.
Sorry but I’ve not seen any evidence of a “near miss”, including what I saw with my own eyes at that location earlier.
I find it highly unlikely every EMR and GTR train driver passing through a dangerously overcrowded platform failed to report it?
Where are the log reports of dangerous overcrowding that you claim to have witnessed? If you saw something dangerous you should certainly act, what steps have you taken to report it?!
EDIT: Twitter complaints (which are understandable given the issues today) notably also not mentioning dangerous overcrowding.
If you work for the railway and witnessed dangerous overcrowding why didn’t you call West Hampstead box and ask them to caution trains?
The overcrowding was principally on the footbridge.
In particular the stairs down to platform 4 where it was gunged up with large numbers of passengers standing on the stairs on both sides up to two abreast on each side (as there is no shelter from the rain on the platform), many with heavy luggage, making it near impassable; and that could easily have resulted in a exceptionally nasty crush with serious injuries or worse.
(not helped by numbskulls pushing past aggressively attempting to board a Thameslink train that had arrived. Some idiot behind me actually pushed me on the stairs and moaned at me for being too polite as I attempted to make my way down!)
There were also at times large numbers milling around on very narrow sections of platform that is wholly unsuitable for the purpose to which it was put (mainly because people on the platform were disproportionally crowding around the area of the footbridge in the hope of getting some shelter from the heavy rain); the congestion on the footbridge perversely kept people off the platform, but was little comfort to those unable to get down the footbridge and board trains.
You seem to only be intrested in shooting me as a messenger though and will no doubt respond so you can have the last word.
Having used West Hampstead TL twice today, I wouldn’t say the station was dangerously overcrowded this evening. Busy, yes.
What does get overcrowded is St Albans, including the footbridge and Platform 4. It was last night, such that at least two trains wouldn’t depart until the platform cleared somewhat.
You’ve made some serious allegations tonight, including calling for sackings.
I’ve simply asked you to back them up with evidence and asked whether, as a “messenger”, you’ve reported your concerns officially?
You still haven’t answered, so the floor is yours!
What does get overcrowded is St Albans, including the footbridge and Platform 4. It was last night, such that at least two trains wouldn’t depart until the platform cleared somewhat.
Absolutely, certainly not an ideal location to commence EMR’s northbound service from.
P3 gets busy as well and is on an inside curve with EMR trains running through at linespeed. It’s often thronging with passengers awaiting following fast GTRs that cross over at Harpenden.
Service has failed to recover from earlier and now EMR services are starting/finishing at West Hampstead Thameslink due to flooding in St Pancras EMR platforms.
I must be missing something. How do the platforms flood? Wouldn't the water pour off on to the track?
I arrived at St Pancras this afternoon from Ashford after a downpour. The platform was like a skating rink. Given the obsession with health and safety, why has such a modern station got such slippery tiles on the platform? A typical street pavement is far less slippery.
Didn't they change to using Luton after a bit instead or did I pick that up wrong, I had plenty of my own problems to deal with in RuralShire Rail instead
I must be missing something. How do the platforms flood? Wouldn't the water pour off on to the track?
I arrived at St Pancras this afternoon from Ashford after a downpour. The platform was like a skating rink. Given the obsession with health and safety, why has such a modern station got such slippery tiles on the platform? A typical street pavement is far less slippery.
Modern architecture and buildings don't seem to allow for rain anymore?
I'm as mystified as anyone, but it seems to occur quite often.
I'm sure this is actually an exaggeration on my part, (since the weather is very odd right now) but the number of buildings and pavements that leak or flood with even a small amount of rain seems very odd.
Reading station rebuild was another oddity that seemed to be badly affected by weather, especially when first opened.
I must be missing something. How do the platforms flood? Wouldn't the water pour off on to the track?
I arrived at St Pancras this afternoon from Ashford after a downpour. The platform was like a skating rink. Given the obsession with health and safety, why has such a modern station got such slippery tiles on the platform? A typical street pavement is far less slippery.
Too much water for the drains to handle at the gateline area. That said, it's a pretty awful platform surface. Terrazzo tiles with no texture. Leathal when they get icey in winter too. Hard-wearing, but not suitable for such an exposed location.
You’ve made some serious allegations tonight, including calling for sackings.
I’ve simply asked you to back them up with evidence and asked whether, as a “messenger”, you’ve reported your concerns officially?
You still haven’t answered, so the floor is yours!
Aside from the technical matter of Form 1ing (a now obsolete BR disciplinary charge) not being the same thing as sacking, wbat part of my last post (key section rewritten below) didn't you see?
I apologise that I didn't film the incident to provide you with your required evidence, however there was a monsoon on, it was very crowded and I was more concerned with getting down said stairs in one piece (followed by a lengthy wait on said wet platform spent mostly talking to EMR passengers who didn't have the faintest idea what was going on, in particular Nottingham passengers who seemed to have no trains and suggesting they got on a due Sheffield train and changed at Leicester).
I suggest you read up on the Bethnal Green disaster of 1943 and similar cases.
"The overcrowding was principally on the footbridge.
In particular the stairs down to platform 4 where it was gunged up with large numbers of passengers standing on the stairs on both sides up to two abreast on each side (as there is no shelter from the rain on the platform), many with heavy luggage, making it near impassable; and that could easily have resulted in a exceptionally nasty crush with serious injuries or worse.
(not helped by numbskulls pushing past aggressively attempting to board a Thameslink train that had arrived. Some idiot behind me actually pushed me on the stairs and moaned at me for being too polite as I attempted to make my way down!)"
PS - your claim that Corby trains were not running is not true. They were, albeit with some cancellations.
I must be missing something. How do the platforms flood? Wouldn't the water pour off on to the track?
I arrived at St Pancras this afternoon from Ashford after a downpour. The platform was like a skating rink. Given the obsession with health and safety, why has such a modern station got such slippery tiles on the platform? A typical street pavement is far less slippery.
It was not the platforms as such but the concourse next to the barriers. Under 3 inch of water with nowhere to go. Absolutely streamed through the roof. It was also running in off the road due to the drains being blocked. The police made the decision to shut the station!.
Apalling day for us. Alot of poor descisions made yesterday. Embarrassed to work for the company at the moment to be honest.
It was not the platforms as such but the concourse next to the barriers. Under 3 inch of water with nowhere to go. Absolutely streamed through the roof. It was also running in off the road due to the drains being blocked. The police made the decision to shut the station!.
Apalling day for us. Alot of poor descisions made yesterday. Embarrassed to work for the company at the moment to be honest.
That explains it. The platforms themselves seemed pretty dry and of course the TL core was still running which seemed a little odd when the station above it was closed due to flooding!
