Missing advanced trains because of previous late running

[royaloak]

3. A latent problem - and this is more an opinion of mine rather than objective point, but this is an online forum - is that many passengers seem to feel that it is unfair that those who have bought a ticket and have been delayed are: 1. treated as travellers without tickets and 2. can do nothing to remedy this situation. Offering passengers the chance to (say) upgrade an advance ticket any-time up to 24 hours after its validity, at a ticket office, to another type of ticket, with a % 'administration fee' to ensure that all travellers don't just buy advances knowing that they can then upgrade, would seem much better customer service.

I do agree with what you have said, but MOST passengers would simple get on the next train WITHOUT checking first and then use the "jobsworth" line when they get charged for a new ticket.

Also my last point about being late for the plane and what happens there, I dont fly so dont know, anybody got any ideas!

 

[yorkie]

Ive got a query to ask on this subject, one that will apply with me. I'm using my free travel with XC to get to birmingham in a few weeks, and have purchased advance tickets from there on into london with Virgin (cheaper than going from where I live, and cheaper than using priv!)
I have given us 25 mins transfer at New Street, but was wondering where I stand if the XC service is delayed and I miss my booked train?

Has anyone else ever had this before?

If you bought a PRIV ticket then you are covered IMO. If not, I don't see that you are covered however staff may use their discretion, and if you ask before boarding you are likely to be allowed travel on a later service.

Assuming you want a return, Leeds to Brum on PRIV can be done for £15.80 which works out at £7.90 each way.

To go on the direct ECML route the return PRIV fare can be brought down to £42.50, which works out at £21.25 each way which is cheaper than most Advance fares.

 

[John @ home]

That's not what we are told - our staff briefing says that the endorsement rule applies equally to all sorts of Airport Advance, print at home or conventional tickets.

I hadn't noted that before so shall take this up with the relevant people!

Thanks. Please tell us what response you get.

 

[rail-britain]

I would suggest that it does however you would need to make sure that you have allowed the minimum connection time.

The 20 minutes I allow at Preston is well in excess of the minimum connection time
However, I increase this to 1 hour and 20 minutes, just in case

It's more difficult, can you claim that it is one journey? If not, then there could be problems, as the conditions state you can continue your journey if there are delays to your journey, and it is unclear if this means that separate out and return legs being combined are covered or not
I agree with Dave that the reason cannot matter, and a "document transfer" cannot be dismissed simply as not a good reason. However the issue I have is whether or not this counts as 2 journeys, and if it does, are you still covered?

I've never had a straight answer on this, even the Virgin Trains staff at Glasgow Central couldn't answer it!
I arrive at Preston and hand over the document to a member of my own staff within the station (I don't leave the station premises)
I then travel back to Glasgow on the next train

If there was a Glasgow to Glasgow, via Preston, ticket I would buy that, but there isn't
The staff at Glasgow Central are quite used to me buying this, so much so they know the two seats I normally reserve now!

Another I book is Glasgow Central - Darlington
I missed my return connection once arriving at Darlington 1 hour and 45 minutes late, the staff at Darlington were puzzled as to why I had only allowed 1 hour at Darlington for a return trip, but after explaining the reason for the journey and making some phone calls they allowed me to travel on the next service (stamping my return ticket before travel)

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Thanks. Please tell us what response you get.

I have had an email response from the relevant department internally, and they advise that the Website was incorrect. Now that the error has been highlighted they have said they will get it changed to show the correct information (i.e. that everyone with an Airport Advance ticket, be it a Print@Home or traditional ticket, needs to get the ticket endorsed before boarding the train if they wish to take advantage of the easement advertised) as soon as possible.

 

[John @ home]

the relevant department ... advise that the Website was incorrect. Now that the error has been highlighted they have said they will get it changed to show the correct information.

Thanks for the update.

It will be interesting to see whether they brief staff who inspect tickets that there may be passengers who buy these tickets while the current wording is on the website, but travel after the update, who retain a contractual right to travel in accordance with the earlier wording.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Thanks for the update.

It will be interesting to see whether they brief staff who inspect tickets that there may be passengers who buy these tickets while the current wording is on the website, but travel after the update, who retain a contractual right to travel in accordance with the earlier wording.

They won't!

 

[sheff1]

Also my last point about being late for the plane and what happens there, I dont fly so dont know, anybody got any ideas!

It varies according to the airline.

I have insurance to cover this situation, but have never had to claim as the only time I was seriously delayed I was travelling with Lufthansa, a 'full service' airline, who offered me a choice of the next flight, about 4 hours later, to Frankfurt (my original destination) or a flight to Dusseldorf within the hour which I took. I doubt whether Ryanair would be so accomodating.

 

[talltim]

How do you define what is an allowable cause of delay and what isn't? Why should tube be allowable and plane not? Is it down to what you can buy through tickets on, even if you haven't?

 

[John @ home]

How do you define what is an allowable cause of delay and what isn't?

It's included in the terms & conditions of the ticket. For example,

Conditions of use

• You must be at the departure station shown on your ticket in good time to catch the train. If you miss the first train on which you are booked for any reason, a new ticket must be purchased.
• If delays occur while travelling, you will be allowed to take the next available train(s) to complete your journey.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/advance_conditions.html

 

[yorkie]

How do you define what is an allowable cause of delay and what isn't? Why should tube be allowable and plane not? Is it down to what you can buy through tickets on, even if you haven't?

Tube is a difficult one, and I don't think it has properly been tested. I am not sure the mode itself matters, it may be more a case of the ticket held. The conditions of Advance tickets state that you may complete the journey if you are delayed, and the NCoC states that you can use more than one ticket for one journey. However I think that someone starting their journey at, say, Balham on the Northern Line using Oyster PAYG and then combining it with an Advance ticket from London Terminals will (rightly or wrongly) find it harder to convince staff that they should travel on a later train, than someone who boards a train at Balham and has a National Rail ticket from Balham to London St Pancras (providing sufficient time is allowed to cross London). Similarly, anyone arriving on a ferry on a ferry ticket combining it with an Advance ticket is going to find it harder to convince staff that they should travel on a later train, than someone with a Rail & Sail inclusive ticket.

In general, I find that if you travelled on public transport which was delayed, with sufficient allowance built in to your schedule, then you will usually be allowed travel. But if you are combining a non-NR ticket with an Advance ticket, then I don't think you have a right to be carried (except with an Airport Advance or similar where the terms explicitly allow it)