MG11 Caution - FCC: St Albans to Farringdon

[JD1984]

Hi there,

I was travelling on a FCC service one morning a couple of weeks ago during the rush hour on a busy train. I ended up sitting in the 1st class section of the carriage since there were no seats and limited standing space elsewhere.

A revenue protection officer entered the carriage and asked for my ticket. I showed him my valid standard class ticket and railcard - he proceeded to give me a penalty fare, but since I didn't have my wallet with me (only had £10), told him I could only pay 10 pounds towards the cost of the fine at the time.

He proceeded to ask for my details - I stupidly gave him incorrect details and handed it to him. He said he would need to check them and I subsequently apologised and told him that I had given him the wrong details. I provided him with the correct details, which he verified and then told me he wouldn't be giving me a fine, but would be filling in the MG11 form because I had given him false details.

I received a caution and was asked to sign the MG11 form, on which he wrote that I had provided false details and had attempted to leave the carriage. I refused to sign his statement since I hadn't attempted to leave the carriage at all (when he asked for my ticket, I stood up to get it from my bag which he used as the reason for writing this). He gave me the small slip from the bottom and said I would hear in the next month or so from the prosecution department. I am yet to hear anything from the department.

Now, I fully understand that what I did was foolish, stupid and completely my own fault, but my aim now is to avoid criminal prosecution. I am willing to pay the fines and costs associated with any out of court settlement and am considering getting a solicitor to sort this out if needed (once I hear from the prosecution department).

Would appreciate your thoughts on what might happen and what I should do.

Many thanks

 

[yorkie]

A Penalty Fare is a charge made when a passenger makes a mistake under certain circumstances.

As you gave false details, it's now escalated well beyond that and FCC will now be considering a Prosecution.

I don't know what legislation they would use in this specific case, but if they used the Railway Byelaws to prosecute that would be a 'strict liability' matter, and would likely result in a fine, but not a criminal record.

Alternatively, they could use the Regulation of Railways Act, which would result in a criminal record, but that seems less likely, based on what you and others in a similar situation have said.

An alternative would be for you and FCC to reach an out of court settlement (see 8.7.1.3 Out of Court Settlement), which would be cheaper for both parties as it avoids expensive legal costs.

I do not know what legislation FCC will use (as it will depend on the evidence they have collected) and I do not know what the likelihood of FCC agreeing an out of court settlement, nor the settlement amount.

FCC might indicate a willingness to settle when they write to you. If they don't mention it, then you may want to contact them regarding that.

Hopefully you will find the links in this post (which link to posts within our RailUK Fares & Ticketing Guide) helpful.

 

[JD1984]

Thanks for your thoughts.

If it helps, I discussed the matter with a solicitor who thought the following offences were committed:

Suspected Offences : -
1) Using a seat reserved for a specified ticket holder without an appropriate ticket contrary to Railway Byelaw 19;
2) Travel with intent to avoid payment of fare contrary to section 5(3)(a) of Regulation of Railways Act 1889;
3) Giving false details to officer of railway company contrary to section 5(3)(c) ibid.

 

[bb21]

They are all correct, unfortunately, however having committed an offence under one legislation does not necessarily mean you will be prosecuted under it.

 

[najaB]

They are all correct, unfortunately, however having committed an offence under one legislation does not necessarily mean you will be prosecuted under it.

What's more, it would be extremely unusual for them to prosecute under both the byelaws AND the RoRA. The advice given to you by Yorkie is correct... Wait and see what FCC do next and start saving in case they are willing to accept a not-insignificant sum of money to make the matter go away.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

It is my reading of the facts reported here that the Company would firstly consider using the evidence in the Inspector's report to pursue a Prosecution under S.5.3 (c) of the Regulation of Railways Act

3 . . .
(c) Having failed to pay his fare, gives in reply to a request by an officer of a
railway company a false name or address,

I'm not persuaded that there is any good reason to abandon that pursuit, but perhaps JD1984 will be able (with the assistance of their solicitor) to negotiate an Out of Court settlement. But unless there are good reasons to believe that a Court's judgement and awards of costs would not be paid in a timely manner, then we cannot possibly predict outcome when those probabilities are put into the balance.

 

[Stigy]

By giving false details, I'm afraid it's easier to secure a 5(3)a conviction than if you gave correct details from the outset. That's not to say that they'll use this legislation. Unfortunately, the 5(3)a goes hand in hand with a 5(3)c (you can use the 5(3)a on its own, but not the 5(3)c, if that makes sense?). This being the case, it would be two separate offences to be charged.

It all depends on the evidence they have as to whether they'll use the more serious legislation, Railway Byelaw 19, or settle out of court.

 

[JD1984]

So I have now received a notice of intention to prosecute where they ask me to provide my version of events.

The details of offences are:
- Remain in a reserved seat, berth or train without an appropriate ticket
- Giving a false address

This doesn't seem to clarify which offences they aim to prosecute under - any thoughts on if it is both the Byelaw 19 and RoRA?

It would be great to get any thoughts on how I should respond and what the likelihood is of achieving an out of court settlement if I admit to the offences and offer to cover all costs? I am also considering getting a solicitor to deal with this if it will increase the likelihood of securing a settlement - would this be the best option?

Many thanks!

 

[island]

They can prosecute both if they want to. The false address charge carries a criminal record. The remain in a reserved seat charge does not.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

In view of the severity of the offence in giving false details (a Regulation of Railways Act S.5.3 (c) offence with a criminal record on conviction), I do think that the assistance of a solicitor might be of assistance in attempting to negotiate. Whether that negotiation might achieve an out of court settlement or not I couldn't begin to guess, but it might include accepting the lesser Railway Byelaw 19 Offence of travelling in the wrong class of accomodation, which does not lead to a criminal record on conviction, and agreeing not to prosecute the RoRA offence if this is the first time you have been detected doing so.

Perhaps you have the detached objectivity and calm rationality to negotiate on your own behalf - only you know your own abilities in that respect. My advice above remains unchanged.