Lumo Stirling - Possible diversion routes

[Tazi Hupefi]

It's not possible to sign the South WCML without signing via Northampton. The local instructions for the route mean that a signaller can divert you via Northampton without prior warning, so the driver needs to be able to accept the route.

 

[The Planner]

Booked working via Northampton on a Saturday evening. This particular service is very slow, although it goes fast line from Hanslope after its trip via Northampton.

Realtime Trains | 1M02 1321 Stirling to London Euston | 20/12/2025

Real-time train running information for 1M02 1321 departure from Stirling to London Euston on 20/12/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Another, even slower one via Northampton northbound on a Sunday morning.

Realtime Trains | 1S00 0822 London Euston to Stirling | 21/12/2025

Real-time train running information for 1S00 0822 departure from London Euston to Stirling on 21/12/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I agree that some of the allowances and decisions seem a bit odd. 6½ at Colwich is clearly for the Euston Manchester to go in front, but it would actually not be a clash if you took that allowance out and ran it before. The issue is actually at Amington with the Liverpool train before it as it goes in front of the Lumo. I'm surprised it doesn't run ahead if its going off via Northampton.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

I agree that some of the allowances and decisions seem a bit odd. 6½ at Colwich is clearly for the Euston Manchester to go in front, but it would actually not be a clash if you took that allowance out and ran it before. The issue is actually at Amington with the Liverpool train before it as it goes in front of the Lumo. I'm surprised it doesn't run ahead if its going off via Northampton.

Like some of the services I've mentioned in the other thread, have you any idea why Lumo (or Network Rail?) are scheduling trains with possibly erroneous allowances and extended journey times? Is it likely to be the case that someone simply thinks they are genuinely necessary or possible that someone is deliberately trying to make the service unattractive?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Like some of the services I've mentioned in the other thread, have you any idea why Lumo (or Network Rail?) are scheduling trains with possibly erroneous allowances and extended journey times? Is it likely to be the case that someone simply thinks they are genuinely necessary or possible that someone is deliberately trying to make the service unattractive?

But it’s not erroneous at Colwich here!
1A74 passes Colwich from Stoke on the up at 18.08 then 1H33 passes on the down crossing to Stoke.

The Lumo then follows over the junction after these two conflicting moves at 18.15.

If it didn’t have the pathing approaching Colwich it would be running in the same path as 1A74.

 

[The Planner]

But it’s not erroneous at Colwich here!
1A74 passes Colwich from Stoke on the up at 18.08 then 1H33 passes on the down crossing to Stoke.

The Lumo then follows over the junction after these two conflicting moves at 18.15.

If it didn’t have the pathing approaching Colwich it would be running in the same path as 1A74.

Good point, I didnt spot 1A74. You can't run it earlier from Crewe either.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Even the weekday paths - I can't see these being viable for Lumo, unless they're expecting the situation to improve in a future timetable - they're awful. They'll have to compete with the West Midlands Trains fares rather than Avanti with these journey times, so profitability is going to be dented hugely.

Although the timings from Preston and stops further north compare favourably with coaches like Flixbus/the one remaining Megabus route, which will be their main competitor if they price similarly to the Lumo ECML route.

 

[Bald Rick]

Like some of the services I've mentioned in the other thread, have you any idea why Lumo (or Network Rail?) are scheduling trains with possibly erroneous allowances and extended journey times? Is it likely to be the case that someone simply thinks they are genuinely necessary or possible that someone is deliberately trying to make the service unattractive?

They are not erroneous. It was the only way to get the paths in.

As it is, I would expect them to be revised for the May 2026 timetable change, by which time they may even have started running.

 

[SeanM1997]

Am I right in saying that in England the stopping pattern varies - for instance Crewe has 2 southbound (1 from Stirling) and 3 northbound (2 to Stirling)

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Am I right in saying that in England the stopping pattern varies - for instance Crewe has 2 southbound (1 from Stirling) and 3 northbound (2 to Stirling)

Varies in Scotland too, some services omit Larbert, some omit Motherwell. Possibly more, I only reviewed a couple.

The stopping patterns are all irregular - the only guarantee is Preston and Euston!

 

[Some guy]

Varies in Scotland too, some services omit Larbert, some omit Motherwell. Possibly more, I only reviewed a couple.

The stopping patterns are all irregular - the only guarantee is Preston and Euston!

Also Carlisle is a guarantee. Crewe seems to get more stopping on a weekend rather than during the week

They are not erroneous. It was the only way to get the paths in.

As it is, I would expect them to be revised for the May 2026 timetable change, by which time they may even have started running.

With the introduction of 125 MU speeds on the south they will definitely be able to be run much faster by May. From Preston 2 hours 40 minutes with a stop at Nuneaton and Milton Keynes would definitely get shortened down to at least 2 hours 15 minutes

 

[The Planner]

Also Carlisle is a guarantee. Crewe seems to get more stopping on a weekend rather than during the week

With the introduction of 125 MU speeds on the south they will definitely be able to be run much faster by May. From Preston 2 hours 40 minutes with a stop at Nuneaton and Milton Keynes would definitely get shortened down to at least 2 hours 15 minutes

Where on earth is the 25 minutes coming from?! Its 2 hours 15 now with a Wigan and Warrington stop with 125mph EPS. There is little 125 MU going in. No way are Lumo getting paths like Avanti's

 

[Bald Rick]

Also Carlisle is a guarantee. Crewe seems to get more stopping on a weekend rather than during the week

With the introduction of 125 MU speeds on the south they will definitely be able to be run much faster by May. From Preston 2 hours 40 minutes with a stop at Nuneaton and Milton Keynes would definitely get shortened down to at least 2 hours 15 minutes

I admire your optimism!