Longer (400m?) trains on the ECML - what work would be needed?

[Halifaxlad]

Is capacity at Kings Cross a significant barrier to increased capacity for intercity services on the ECML?
If so, is there any potential scope to move commuter services away from Kings Cross? For example there is an existing route from Stevenage to Moorgate. Could capacity on this route be increased?

You could probably get 300m units in at a push. I certainly wouldnt look at moving services away from Kings Cross!

 

[Bletchleyite]

You could probably get 300m units in at a push. I certainly wouldnt look at moving services away from Kings Cross!

So:
- New order of 300m units (12 x 25m) specifically for KX-Edinburgh services, probably from CAF
- Redeploy the relevant number of 5-car 80x to another TOC e.g. TPE, GWR or XC (retain all 9s)

Sorted!

 

[Nottingham59]

With ETCS could you reasonably and safely move the buffer stops at Kings Cross towards the end of track, and move the stopping point up closer to the buffers? That would give an extra 10-20 metres usable length to all platforms.

 

[Bald Rick]

With ETCS could you reasonably and safely move the buffer stops at Kings Cross towards the end of track

Not with ETCS. Possibly with ATO.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Sorted!

Good

 

[devon_belle]

think that the reality of the situation is probably that the point Bletchleyite is raising will be addressed quite adequately by the proposed new timetable, with all of the political costs that reducing the quality of the service from Northallerton, Berwick-upon-Tweed and other places that these changes would entail.

In bold — could someone explain or point me to a thread or webpage which elaborates on this proposal? Thanks.

 

[Starmill]

In bold — could someone explain or point me to a thread or webpage which elaborates on this proposal? Thanks.

There's scant confirmed details unfortunately. However there was a consultation in 2022 for a very similar proposal which was rejected but is likely to be ressurected. The short summary would be making London Kings Cross - Edinburgh express services run fast between Edinburgh and Newcastle and between Newcastle and York, to cut 10 - 15 minutes from the end-to-end timing. This requires other services to have longer gaps between them so that they don't get in the way, and means there is likely to be a reduction in frequency or poorer spacing for other stations, especially for journeys like Northallerton - Newcastle, Alnmouth - Edinburgh, Berwick-upon-Tweed - London and so on and so forth. Some hours could see a third Newcastle - London service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's scant confirmed details unfortunately. However there was a consultation in 2022 for a very similar proposal which was rejected but is likely to be ressurected. The short summary would be making London Kings Cross - Edinburgh express services run fast between Edinburgh and Newcastle and between Newcastle and York, to cut 10 - 15 minutes from the end-to-end timing. This requires other services to have longer gaps between them so that they don't get in the way, and means there is likely to be a reduction in frequency or poorer spacing for other stations, especially for journeys like Northallerton - Newcastle, Alnmouth - Edinburgh, Berwick-upon-Tweed - London and so on and so forth. Some hours could see a third Newcastle - London service.

I can't find it now, but an article I found on it earlier had the following:

1. One of the two Edinburgh-Kings Cross services becomes fast as you describe (the other one doesn't).
2. All current Kings Cross-Newcastle services that don't do the full route (about 3 per day I think) extend to Edinburgh to make it 2tph all day
3. Additional 1tph (not only a few) semifast Kings Cross-Newcastle taking up the removed stops

One presumes that the fare increase trial will be used to price people onto the services in (3) if not travelling to Edinburgh, so Kings Cross-Newcastle tickets on the fast service are likely to be very expensive except at very quiet times (a bit like the way Avanti prices Euston-Glasgow traffic onto the via Birmingham services when the direct is busy).

 

[Starmill]

There aren't any services which from Newcastle to London which could start back at Edinburgh except for the 0630 from Newcastle and 0600 from Bewick-upon-Tweed. These would be incredibly tight and very empty. Northbound there are no services to Newcastle which could extend to Edinburgh except for the 1818 and the 1930, which already goes to Edinburgh on Fridays anyway. The evening Sunderland could be diverted to Edinburgh instead but once again this would be so late into Edinburgh it would be tight and in low demand. Realistically LNER could have one or maybe two more per day each way on a weekday between Edinburgh and Newcastle. As for the third Newcastle - London service, we'll see what the revised approach to this is.