Loco hauled trains replacing DMUs

[RichmondCommu]

G'day all,

I remember Class 31's and Mk1's (or was it perhaps Mk2 a,b&c's) replacing Inter City DMU's in the early 1980's on the Hope Valley route and I wondered if they were unqiue in doing this?

Your replies would be very welcome!

Richmond Commuter!

 

[O L Leigh]

No, there was a lot of deputising going on around that time. I can remember there being locos and stock covering for DMUs around East Anglia (including a Cl31/4 hauling some lovely InterCity A/C Mk2D/Fs in the place of a ratty old Cl101 power/trailer pairing on an Ipswich to Cambridge local service) and also in the North East when there were teething troubles with the Pacers when new.

But then there were also lots of DMU deputisation as well. When East Anglia was "Sprinterised" with Cl156s in the mid-1980s there were quite a few Tyseley or Newton Heath Cl150s making there way into the region on Provincial Service Cross Country services, and even 1st gen DMUs including a Wumpty (WMPTE) suburban unit (Cl116, perhaps).

O L Leigh

 

[eastwestdivide]

With the Hope valley fast services in the early 80s (Hull-Manchester, mostly I think?), it wasn't so much deputising, but more of a planned replacement of the IC/TP 123/134 mixed DMUs. ETH 31/4s and non-aircon Mk2s as standard. Wasn't there a mass conversion of extra 31/4s around that time too?

 

[caliwag]

In the early 80s, 31s were used on the Hull to the West (Lancaster, Morecambe, Chester, Holyhead??) as a sop to the proposed S+C closure. They used rakes of Mk1s, including some very comfortable declassified FCs. BR installed a few release sets of points too, though if I recall, there was an 03 on hand. I recall seeing at least 3 31s in the station at any one time with a couple on Botanic shed. Don't recall this lasting long though.

As late as around 1990 31s were substituting on York to Newcastle for 158s.

Also, more than once, I travelled on the Derby to Stoke route behind a Derby tech Jaffacake 47 and rake of 4 mk1s...Nottingham to Crewe. I understand there were door problems on the local units.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Beverley (a wholly DMU location in normal circumstances) in 1976. The Cl37 is hauling the 1650 Hull - Bridlington, and the TransPennine DMU has just reversed off the 1640 Hull-Beverley ready to return to Hull. Beverley was 13 minutes out of Hull for those who don't know the area. (It takes a little longer nowadays).

The Transpennine unit working lasted a few years if I recall right. It happened to fit in between an arrival and departure on the normal route so was convenient. There was one occasion I recall when the Buffet car was open! The loco-hauled working was only a couple of seasons for reasons of DMU shortage. (Again - vague recollections; I never kept copious notes....)

 

[RichmondCommu]

With the Hope valley fast services in the early 80s (Hull-Manchester, mostly I think?), it wasn't so much deputising, but more of a planned replacement of the IC/TP 123/134 mixed DMUs. ETH 31/4s and non-aircon Mk2s as standard. Wasn't there a mass conversion of extra 31/4s around that time too?

Oh absolutely which is why I tried to suggest that it was a permanent replacement and not a substitution Thanks for clearing things up as I couldn't remember whether they were Mk1's or Mk2's.

On a different note, being restricted to 75 mph I always thought it rather strange that they were described by BR as Inter City units. They certainly didn't look very Inter City to me although I suppose the provision of a buffet car helped to create the illusion! I think you are right regarding the mass conversion but someone will need to confirm this. All my spotters books went years a go but in the end I think there were fifty 31/4's in total.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Also, more than once, I travelled on the Derby to Stoke route behind a Derby tech Jaffacake 47 and rake of 4 mk1s...Nottingham to Crewe. I understand there were door problems on the local units.

Long after my spotting days had finished I arrived home from London one Friday evening to find top n tail Class 20's waiting to take me back to my parents house near Duffield! This is when they were deputising for a shortage of DMU's some time in the early 1990's. Despite being sharp suited I had my head out the window all the way home. Memories!

 

[eastwestdivide]

...
On a different note, being restricted to 75 mph I always thought it rather strange that they were described by BR as Inter City units. They certainly didn't look very Inter City to me although I suppose the provision of a buffet car helped to create the illusion! I think you are right regarding the mass conversion but someone will need to confirm this. All my spotters books went years a go but in the end I think there were fifty 31/4's in total.
...

Well being Mk1 lookalike DMUs, with catering, they were a step up from the rest of the DMU fleets, and were originally put to use on faster/longer-distance services, so Inter-City was a reasonable description. In fact they ended their days on the Hull-Manchester axis, where they were still doing fast/semi-fast services.
This site has some 31/4 info:
http://the-charts.moonfruit.com/#/history/4515358963

They were 31401-24 when I started spotting in the late 70s, a lot of them on ECS workings (of air-con stock) around London termini, some with a white bodyside stripe. Then in around 1982 I saw 31/4s take over from steam heat ones on the Norwich-Birmingham services.
That site gives 1984 as the date for the conversion of many more examples, coinciding with the withdrawal of the 123/124 sets.

Withdrawal of the 124s from the via-Huddersfield transpennine services (very late 70s?1980ish?) saw some of those services replaced by loco-hauled. Not a bad flickr set here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/neil_harvey_railway_photos/sets/72157627301479693/

 

[4SRKT]

31/4s had a booked monopoly in the mid-80s of Manchester (later Liverpool) > Sheffield > Hull/Cleethorpes; Birmingham > Norwich/Harwich; and York > Scarborough short workings. Some York > Hull services were also loco-hauled using the 4-coach mk 2 sets off the Hope Valley service. They were also used as stated above on a number of Hull > Lancaster through workings, and the daily Hull > Carlisle and return working, which was booked a pair. This last train used to make an unbelievable din taking up to 10 bogies up the Long Drag, particularly in the cuttings north of Settle. Happy days.

When the hourly Hull > Chester/North Wales sprinter workings came in in 1987 (class 150/2s! ouch!), the Liverpool > Hull via Hope Valley workings were cut back to Sheffield but remained loco-hauled for a couple more years. IIRR the Liverpool > Cleethorpes three times a day through workings remained, presumably a useful way of getting the locos back to Immingham.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Thinking back to the OP's

I wondered if they were unqiue in doing this?

...
I suppose you could count Network SE's Paddington-Newbury semi-fasts (47/50 and Mk1s), which were an improvement on the early 80s Newbury standard service of occasional stops by West of England inter-city services, plus mostly DMUs to/from Reading, more-or-less hourly.
Going back a bit further, the Glasgow-Edinburgh shuttles had their "inter-city" DMUs (Cl 126?) replaced by the push-pull 27s, and later the 47/7 + DBSO combos.
And earlier still, the Bristol-Portsmouth service, once Hymek loco-hauled I think, then went to SR DEMUs in the 1970s, which were in turn replaced on that service by loco haulage (33s later, but 31s initially I think??).

But it has been relatively unusual over the last 30-odd years for DMU services to be replaced by loco-hauled. Mostly, it's been the other way round, or else old-style loco-hauled replaced by fixed formations with a driving trailer the other end.

 

[Sun Chariot]

In answer to Richmond Commuter, there were seventy 31/4s all told: the original batch (31401 to 31424), the later conversions (31425 to 31469) and finally, due to 31401 being accident damaged, 31161 became 31400.

In terms of the o.p. I regularly saw - and occasionally used - the "once a day each way" Banbury-Marylebone peak service. 47 plus four Mk1 bogies, instead of a 115. It often produced a non-heat Duff in the summer. It took the Chilterns at a right old pace, the times I used the service - driver used to fair hurl the 47 south of Bicester.

 

[D841 Roebuck]

I think the Marches (Crewe - Cardiff) was also DMU for a spell in the 1970s, before reverting to Class 25 (and later Class 33) haulage.

 

[45041]

I remember in the late 1980s when there were problems with the class 155 dmus in the midlands and some services out of BHM were loco hauled. remember Hereford services going over to NB 47s and who can forget the sprinter substitutions on the Derby - Crewe circuit! anything was kicked out in those days. Happy memories.......

 

[Chrisgr31]

I can recall that occasionally a loco hauled train would replace the thumpers on the Uckfield line, which must of been late 80'3 earrly nineties.

 

[4SRKT]

I can recall that occasionally a loco hauled train would replace the thumpers on the Uckfield line, which must of been late 80'3 earrly nineties.

There were several booked loco-hauled departures M-F from Victoria/London Bridge to both Uckfield and East Grinstead before EG was electrified.

 

[Qwerty133]

I remember in the late 1980s when there were problems with the class 155 dmus in the midlands and some services out of BNS BHM were loco hauled. remember Hereford services going over to NB 47s and who can forget the sprinter substitutions on the Derby - Crewe circuit! anything was kicked out in those days. Happy memories.......

when did the services between Barnes and Hereford end

 

[Whistler40145]

How about Cardiff/Bristol to Weymouth going over to LHCS when DMUs stopped working with the track circuits?

Can anyone confirm whether the use of a 37/4+LHCS on Nottingham to Blackpool was booked or substitution for DMUs?

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[4SRKT]

Can anyone confirm whether the use of a 37/4+LHCS on Nottingham to Blackpool was booked or substitution for DMUs?

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When? The Nottingham > Manchester > Blackpool service was a very early Sprinter service IIRR. Late 80s. It formed the basis of what we now know as the Liverpool > Norwich service.

 

[Whistler40145]

Must have been late 1980s or early 1990s, possibly run during the Blackpool Illuminations.

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