Light Railway Orders and Speed restrictions

[Domeyhead]

Right then, you give it a go and do some market research (you are the consultant) and see the amounts of money we can make.

You couldn't afford me Ralph. Sorry that was a joke. Yes if I could I would, and I would do it freely, but any analysis has to be commissioned by those wanting the answer. There would be no point in undertaking any form of study unilaterally and then turning up one day with a portfolio of material. Anyway if I do have any spare time (very rare sadly) I prefer to get my hands dirty when working at my local railway. I used to work in the loco dept and am a passed fireman - now I just come along and do lineside clearance when I can spare a day.
I am still surprised that you would be so resistant to exploring the opportunity for larger more powerful engines to show themselves to better effect. When you think what 9Fs did on the S&D with 10 up and what they are restricted to doing year in year out today, even a 35mph ceiling between stations could generate huge publicity.

 

[E&W Lucas]

One preserved railway has ventured where you seek to tread.

The NYMR runs regular trains along the Esk Valley branch. That means 45 mph, up some pretty decent hills, and a lot of hard acceleration off bridge related speed restrictions. If you want main line steam on the cheap, get yourself up there, and experience a Schools class stretching her legs somewhat!

But please realise that only the loco & crews have been upgraded to "Heavy Rail" standards. Being in the unique position to "borrow" an isolated section on railway, has avoided any infrastructure costs!

 

[Domeyhead]

One preserved railway has ventured where you seek to tread.

The NYMR runs regular trains along the Esk Valley branch. That means 45 mph, up some pretty decent hills, and a lot of hard acceleration off bridge related speed restrictions. If you want main line steam on the cheap, get yourself up there, and experience a Schools class stretching her legs somewhat!

But please realise that only the loco & crews have been upgraded to "Heavy Rail" standards. Being in the unique position to "borrow" an isolated section on railway, has avoided any infrastructure costs!

Thanks - and I agree. Although running regular service trains from a preserved line onto a main line is a slightly different proposition to my original post it is a compelling way of getting "the best of both worlds". The downside is the additional track access charge but many of the connecting lines are quiet-ish stubs and have no problems with pathing (eg Mid Hants and soon the NNR to name but two). But any railway can compute the break even loadings over a season and determine if there is a case. I'd like to know how many have actually done this. I don't know how financially successful the NYMR runs have been, but hats off to them for being enterprising enough to trial the concept. They are not alone in having the feasibility of a piece of "big railway" to play with which of course renders discussions on infrastructure readiness redundant. I wonder whether such an idea might tempt the Paignton and Dartmouth running to and beyond Torquay on some summer service trains - especially dining? I would guess that the P&D is possibly the best pure tourism business case in the south, even without the enthusiast market. The Mid Hants running to Farnham might be another but on a smaller scale. It has been proposed before and rejected but never saw any figures.

 

[royaloak]

Mid Hants, quietish stub, yeah whatever, when the oil train runs SWT terminate at Farnham as the oil train takes the path because there is no extra capacity on the line to Alton, good luck getting a steam service to run!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

That's what I was thinking Royaloak.

That's also why Tornado is arriving at 2.40 in the morning.

 

[royaloak]

And most steamers arrive (or leave) in the same path on the days the oil train doesnt run!

 

[Domeyhead]

Mid Hants, quietish stub, yeah whatever, when the oil train runs SWT terminate at Farnham as the oil train takes the path because there is no extra capacity on the line to Alton, good luck getting a steam service to run!

WHen I checked a few minutes ago - the sunday service is half the weekday service, which suggests at least one path per hour, non? I don't think anyone in their right minds would propose main line running on working days on a commuter line in the south of england, but it's the negativity that draws you straight to that conclusion that I can't understand.
It seems like more examples of that "can't do" mentality at work here, again.

 

[E&W Lucas]

I can't comment on the specifics of the MHR, as I'm not familiar with the area, but consider what has been involved in getting one heritage outfit up to TOC standards:

- An isolated section of railway, operated under NSTR. The most basic form of railway operation.
- Whitby provides a destination for the NYMR, and the service is operated almost daily.
- People - the need to employ managers who are credible to NR. More of them too. ££££££
- Locos. Increased overhaul costs, as outlined above. Either that, or you have to hire in one or more of the small fleet of mainline passed steam locos. There's got to be something suitable available, and you've got to allow for movement. Start at 5k for that, probably a lot more.
- Coaches - everything that you want to run has to be NR registered. ££££££
- Writing a safety case. Time, effort and £££££

at the end of all that, you're stuck with the paths that are free around the franchised operator, rather than the ones that you actually want. Whitby - Grosmont isn't high speed (30). Grosmont to Battersby does offer rather more of what was being discussed (45), but it's not really viable to get a service down there very often. There's simply not the paths.

NR operation is only viable for the Moors, as the facility is used day in day out.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

WHen I checked a few minutes ago - the sunday service is half the weekday service,

AFAIK only until lunchtime once an hour, and then half hourly.

And where would this service run? Farnham? Bentley? Aldershot?

 

[Domeyhead]

AFAIK only until lunchtime once an hour, and then half hourly.

And where would this service run? Farnham? Bentley? Aldershot?

I'm not setting up a specific proposal - you tell me if you are enterprising enough to explore it. I did suggest the MHR as it is connected, but the thread is not specific to them. My entire thread is about getting railways to explore their own potentials. Unfortunately many preserved railways are imbued with a kind of introspective pessimism that almost seems like a throwback to the latter days of the declining railway that causes ideas and change to be regarded as threats without being properly explored. (perhaps even the pessimism is part of the "heritage experience . Maybe the MHR doesn't have the freedom to run after all, but that will not be the case for others. The NYMR checked and it did, and presumably the economics of the business case were encouraging. Others should follow its examples and check their own business cases.
It's good to see people thinking about it anyway even if there is a tendency to prejudge the outcome. For example, regarding issues such as the creation of safety cases - in my experience preserved railways have remarkably dedicated individuals who take on these challenges voluntarily. Just about every successful lottery grant has been down to the dedication and perseverance of an individual. Compared to securing a lottery grant compiling a safety case would be straightforward!

 

[E&W Lucas]

Not really the same - you need people who know the ins & outs of the system. There is also a lot of negotiation regarding the specifics, especially exemptions, eg from OTMR. This has meant employing several ex BR managers, who have been able to "open doors", in a way that the dedicated volunteers you speak of could not.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Domeyhead - in the years past, the MHR did operate train onto NR metals - but only to Alton platform 2.

In fact - in spite of what has been said - an investigation into the potential there would be quite interesting.

But - then again E&WLucas does have a valid point above. Many railways would not be around now, if ex-BR managers had got involved who had knowledge of the system.