Lied to staff under caution I panicked

[hazelkas]

Good evening everyone I messed up and am panicking

I went to get my daughter today on the train and brought thicket from theale to reading no problem however I was actually going to cholsey when I got on the train to cholsey from reading ticket lady came and I lied and said can’t find my ticket happy to buy another she allowed me to purchase it I brought a one way ticket to Tilehurst rather then cholsey as o don’t have enough I though I had more cash on me then I did I then stayed on the train and got off in cholsey picked up my daughter and got the next train back however the same ticket person was on the train o told her was getting off at reading she issue a penalty fare which I said I apologise ect. However once she left I’d found out I needed to go back to thatcham not reading as was a change of plans up u til this point had given all correct information ect. We ran and jumped on the train to thatcham myself and my 4 year old daughter, as soon as the train left the ticket man can past I think he was a inspector or something asked for a ticket I panicked I am autistic and dual adhd and have anxiety and froze I lied because 5 mins prior I had gotten a penalty fare I didn’t know what to do. I said I’d dropped my ticket he said pref of buying I explained I paid cash which obviously I didn’t not I said can I please buy a ticket a family member had now sent the money to cover this so was now able to pay for it , he said he dosnt sell tickets on the train and I couldn’t buy one I said I’ll happily get of as next stop is 3 mins buy a ticket and get next train he said no mood I won’t charge your for a ticket now but take my details ect he then cautioned me and I gave him false name and my old address but my dob he then asked me do I intentionally travel without a ticket my response was no it wasn’t intentional or was last min he said so you have the funds for a ticket I said yes I’m happy to pay now he made me sign his tablet and that was it I said what happens now and he said I will get a letter to explain why I have no ticket ect but obviously the reason was a lie I just panicked in the moment I had little one with me and was panicking. He didn’t give me anything with any reference or anything on. What shall I do I’m worried as I’ve lied and given false details I really want to call them up and try resolve before it goes off to be investigated

 

[WesternLancer]

Do not call them. Wait for clear advice on here before you do anything else.

For the Penalty Fare element of things you may need to pay that promptly to obtain the 50% discount given for prompt payment, or submit an Appeal to the Penalty Fare within the timescale permitted. An appeal would only be granted if there are suitable grounds for it however.

 

[z444z]

This is an absurd amount of fare evasion in a single journey after being given warning after warning to stop. Imagine being caught shoplifting by putting things in a coat, being seen by a security guard who’s feeling nice and gives you a warning, and then continuing.

If you gave your correct details for the penalty fare, they may write to the false name and address you’ve given, but if they investigate further before doing so it’s possible they’ll realise it’s the same person that was penalty fared, conclude that it’s you they’re looking for, and quite possibly prosecute without offering to settle, although GWR are generally one of the nicer ones to deal with.

Did you give correct details for the penalty fare, and is the false name you gave anywhere near your real name?

You can close the matter of the penalty fared journey by paying it, but it’s still possible you could be prosecuted for providing false details or for one of the ticketing offences that was not penalty fared.

 

[WesternLancer]

Unfortunately the second incident where your details were taken and you gave false information will take more time and funds to resolve. That was an error of judgement on your part.

But we can give advice on how to untangle that if needed.

Don’t panic about all this. It’s possible to resolve it but some money may be required.

 

[Egg Centric]

Good evening everyone I messed up and am panicking

I went to get my daughter today on the train and brought thicket from theale to reading no problem however I was actually going to cholsey when I got on the train to cholsey from reading ticket lady came and I lied and said can’t find my ticket happy to buy another she allowed me to purchase it I brought a one way ticket to Tilehurst rather then cholsey as o don’t have enough I though I had more cash on me then I did I then stayed on the train and got off in cholsey picked up my daughter and got the next train back however the same ticket person was on the train o told her was getting off at reading she issue a penalty fare which I said I apologise ect. However once she left I’d found out I needed to go back to thatcham not reading as was a change of plans up u til this point had given all correct information ect. We ran and jumped on the train to thatcham myself and my 4 year old daughter, as soon as the train left the ticket man can past I think he was a inspector or something asked for a ticket I panicked I am autistic and dual adhd and have anxiety and froze I lied because 5 mins prior I had gotten a penalty fare I didn’t know what to do. I said I’d dropped my ticket he said pref of buying I explained I paid cash which obviously I didn’t not I said can I please buy a ticket a family member had now sent the money to cover this so was now able to pay for it , he said he dosnt sell tickets on the train and I couldn’t buy one I said I’ll happily get of as next stop is 3 mins buy a ticket and get next train he said no mood I won’t charge your for a ticket now but take my details ect he then cautioned me and I gave him false name and my old address but my dob he then asked me do I intentionally travel without a ticket my response was no it wasn’t intentional or was last min he said so you have the funds for a ticket I said yes I’m happy to pay now he made me sign his tablet and that was it I said what happens now and he said I will get a letter to explain why I have no ticket ect but obviously the reason was a lie I just panicked in the moment I had little one with me and was panicking. He didn’t give me anything with any reference or anything on. What shall I do I’m worried as I’ve lied and given false details I really want to call them up and try resolve before it goes off to be investigated

Where was the Penalty Fare to?

 

[Adam Williams]

I found the post slightly easier to read with some paragraphs.

I went to get my daughter today on the train and brought thicket from theale to reading no problem however I was actually going to cholsey when I got on the train to cholsey from reading ticket lady came and I lied and said can’t find my ticket happy to buy another she allowed me to purchase it I brought a one way ticket to Tilehurst rather then cholsey as o don’t have enough I though I had more cash on me then I did


I then stayed on the train and got off in cholsey picked up my daughter and got the next train back however the same ticket person was on the train o told her was getting off at reading she issue a penalty fare which I said I apologise etc


However once she left I’d found out I needed to go back to thatcham not reading as was a change of plans; up until this point had given all correct information etc.
We ran and jumped on the train to thatcham (myself and my 4 year old daughter). As soon as the train left the ticket man can past I think he was a inspector or something asked for a ticket I panicked I am autistic and dual ADHD and have anxiety and froze I lied because 5 mins prior I had gotten a penalty fare I didn’t know what to do


I said I’d dropped my ticket he said pref of buying I explained I paid cash which obviously I didn’t not I said can I please buy a ticket a family member had now sent the money to cover this so was now able to pay for it , he said he doesn't sell tickets on the train and I couldn’t buy one I said I’ll happily get of as next stop is 3 mins buy a ticket and get next train he said no mood I won’t charge your for a ticket now but take my details etc


He then cautioned me and I gave him false name and my old address but my DOB he then asked me do I intentionally travel without a ticket my response was no it wasn’t intentional or was last min he said so you have the funds for a ticket I said yes I’m happy to pay now he made me sign his tablet and that was it


I said what happens now and he said I will get a letter to explain why I have no ticket etc but obviously the reason was a lie I just panicked in the moment I had little one with me and was panicking. He didn’t give me anything with any reference or anything on.


What shall I do I’m worried as I’ve lied and given false details I really want to call them up and try resolve before it goes off to be investigated?

 

[hazelkas]

Where was the Penalty Fare to?

Cholsey to reading so the caution part was from reading to thatcham

 

[WesternLancer]

Cholsey to reading so the caution part was from reading to thatcham

Taking the two aspects of this as I see it

1) The Penalty Fare: You either need to pay this promptly or Appeal it (or both - if an appeal was successful then the Penalty would be refunded) - I think you need to do this within 21 days of the issue of the Penalty Fare. Prompt payment ensures the Penalty is reduced from £100 to £50. An appeal stops the clock on this 21 day period which might give you more time to find the money to pay the sum.

Set against this, submitting an Appeal might draw more attention to you in relation to the later offence(s) you committed where an inspector has taken your details which is the first step on the ladder to prosecution...

2) Having your details taken, and giving false details.

Travel without a valid ticket is a criminal offence. If the inspector opted not to give you a Penalty Fare later on that day by taking your details they have started that process (although actually being prosecuted is usually avoidable if you co-operate with the railway company - presumably GWR in your case - with the intention of obtaining a settlement from them instead of them prosecuting you - prosecution would result in a criminal record, a court fine etc).

Giving false details is a separate offence that they could prosecute you for (although we don't see many cases of that actually being taken to court). Giving false details is obviously not co-operating with them...

In usual circumstances they would write to the name and address you gave, ask what happened, and a response that involves apologising and seeking to pay any fare owed, plus their admin costs of all this typically results in them not prosecuting. If this does not happen they will just automatically escalate the case to prosecution in court - that would probably mean they would attempt to prosecute a person of the name and address you gave. Sometimes courts can eventually track that back to a real person (ie you) by which time bailiffs would have bene involved usually and the costs to you would have escalated considerably. The fact that you gave an old address increases the chances that they might eventually find you

I think you have to decide if you want to 'come clean' about what you did in the second instance when your details were taken (they are no doubt used to people lying to them), and co-operate with the process - OR - hope that they may never track you down.

It sounds like this is a trip you do from time to time perhaps relating to your child? If so it's not impossible that staff you spoke to recently might recognise you.

For more background you could have a read of the GWR information about what to expect - which is set out in their 'Revenue Protection' leaflet:

https://www.gwr.com/-/media/gwr-sc-website/files/revenue-protection-policy/GWR-Revenue-Protection-Policy-January-2023.pdf

If you decide to engage with them about this - which is what you say you wanted to do at the end of your original post :

What shall I do I’m worried as I’ve lied and given false details I really want to call them up and try resolve before it goes off to be investigated

Then what you could do at this stage is simply e-mail them to provide your correct personal details. Then in due course they will write to you and people here will be able to help you respond in a way that seeks to acahive the best outcome you can obtain. I would suggest that such an e-mail / letter at this stage should only give your details - not get into anything about what actually happened beyond the most basic info required

for example:

Correcting wrong details
All you should say in your e mail is the basics at this stage

after having filled in the relevant details below - You would need to e-mail this to:

GWRProsecutions@gwr.com

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sir/ Madam

I was stopped on [x] date at [y] location / on the train between [x and y], and questioned about not having a valid rail ticket.

Unfortunately I did not give correct personal detail and I would like to apologise for this.

The details I gave were : [INSERT WHAT YOU TOLD THE INSPECTOR so they can match up the record]

Please note my correct name and address is: [Insert your current up to date details]

Yours faithfully

--------------------------------------------------------------------

It's really your decision on what you do now.
Hopefully the information here will help you make an informed decision on what to do and the choices.

If you have any questions please ask.

 

[fandroid]

Just to clarify. After short faring from Reading to Cholsey (which you apparently got away with) you were penalty-fared for the return leg from Cholsey to Reading. The guard obviously asked where you were travelling to as you said "Reading". So, there's little chance of a successful appeal unless there's some other feature that wasn't correctly recorded. Please post an image of the Penalty Fare Notice here, with personal details and reference number obscured. You might want to appeal anyway to give yourself more time to pay.

I'll leave the third fare evasion episode for others to assist with.

 

[RPI]

Interesting that all of these services (with the odd exception of long distance trains that make these calls) are DOO services (they don't have guards), quite often no ticket checks take place on these routes.

 

[WesternLancer]

Interesting that all of these services (with the odd exception of long distance trains that make these calls) are DOO services (they don't have guards), quite often no ticket checks take place on these routes.

And probably a significant number of users who habitually travel without tickets.
The industry must surely carry checks to estimate the extent of that with a view to deciding if it might actually be financially profitable to have on board staff?

 

[fandroid]

Interesting that all of these services (with the odd exception of long distance trains that make these calls) are DOO services (they don't have guards), quite often no ticket checks take place on these routes.

Is that true? I travel on GWR local services a lot, mainly between Basingstoke and Reading, but also on the North Downs Line from Reading and there's always a guard on both those services. That doesn't mean that there are ticket checks, but that's another matter.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Is that true? I travel on GWR local services a lot, mainly between Basingstoke and Reading, but also on the North Downs Line from Reading and there's always a guard on both those services. That doesn't mean that there are ticket checks, but that's another matter.

Yes, both the Reading to Basingstoke and Gatwick services require conductors, but that’s irrelevant here as the original poster wasn’t travelling on either of those lines… They were travelling between stations served predominantly by trains running under Driver Only Operation…

 

[RPI]

Is that true? I travel on GWR local services a lot, mainly between Basingstoke and Reading, but also on the North Downs Line from Reading and there's always a guard on both those services. That doesn't mean that there are ticket checks, but that's another matter.

As stated by @Flange Squeal, the two routes you quote have guards, but the Didcot to Paddington and Paddington/Reading to Newbury routes are majority DOO (Driver Only) and ticket checks can be sporadic.

I only mentioned it because it could be relevant, locals get to know that onboard checks on these services can be hit and miss hence why someone may well think they'll get away with short faring.

There are though more Ticket Examiners working on these services, Ticket Examiners can issue Penalty Fares but can't Complete an MG11.