Leeds to Skipton TOC changed?

[somethingrando]

Good morning,

Got a bit of a mystery! As of Friday 12th, it seems like nobody along the Airedale line has been able to buy etickets via any of the major apps (I've tried TrainPal, Northern and LNER)...

All of the Advance tickets have been removed (something that was done again recently when they introduced 6 carriage trains on the line)... And attempting to purchase any of the left over Off Peak/Anytime Singles and Returns always break the apps at the confirmation stage... "There has been an error, please try again later".
The Northern app only allows you to pick up tickets at the station, the option to buy etickets has been removed...

To make matters more confusing, it seems like the registered TOC on the trains between SKP and LDS have been changed too. Different websites claim different things (ZZ - Freight, or just no TOC at all).

Screens at the stations are struggling to display the lack of TOC, claiming the trains are "An Obfuscated service, forming 4 carriages".

And the automatic announcements at Leeds skip over the part where they announce the operator: "Platform 3B for the 15:26 ... Service to Skipton".

Bit odd! And annoying because we all just want to buy our tickets online!

I'll copy/paste this into an email to Northern and I'll expect a proper response only after the issue has been resolved, in 3-5 business months! I thought I'd post something here in case anyone's heard of anything

 

[jfollows]

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-change-confirmed-changes-only.286247/page-16 post #466 & #467

It's a problem in an industry system and Network Rail are investigating.

 

[Theburritoz]

To make matters more confusing, it seems like the registered TOC on the trains between SKP and LDS have been changed too. Different websites claim different things (ZZ - Freight, or just no TOC at all).

I was wondering why my Google maps wanted me to board a freight train

 

[anothertyke]

Seems like from Tues, tickets from Leeds to Skipton on the Carlisle/Morecambe trains are half the price of the locals. A bit odd.

 

[xotGD]

Very strange that it is only affecting Leeds - Skipton services and not others on the so-called 'Triangle'.

I'm pleased to have already purchased my Advances for the rest of the year.

 

[somethingrando]

This is probably a separate conversation to be had but, has there ever been a precedent of someone claiming refunds after being forced to spend more money on tickets due to a glitch like this? This issue has basically doubled the price of my commute due to a systematic fault (by removing the ability to buy advanced ticket). It's an interesting discussion to me, so I thought I'd ask if someone's aware of something like this happening before?

 

[xotGD]

This is probably a separate conversation to be had but, has there ever been a precedent of someone claiming refunds after being forced to spend more money on tickets due to a glitch like this? This issue has basically doubled the price of my commute due to a systematic fault (by removing the ability to buy advanced ticket). It's an interesting discussion to me, so I thought I'd ask if someone's aware of something like this happening before?

I've jumped in for the week after New Year to book advances on the S&C/Bentham services for which cheap fares are still available.

A lot fewer tickets to go round.

 

[GraphitProjekt]

I was wondering why my Google maps wanted me to board a fright train

Why on earth does Google Maps have the ability to show this !

 

[MrJeeves]

This is probably a separate conversation to be had but, has there ever been a precedent of someone claiming refunds after being forced to spend more money on tickets due to a glitch like this? This issue has basically doubled the price of my commute due to a systematic fault (by removing the ability to buy advanced ticket). It's an interesting discussion to me, so I thought I'd ask if someone's aware of something like this happening before?

Passengers have no right to Advance tickets, so a train operator could choose to intentionally withdraw them at any point if they wanted.

You don't really have any recourse in this case, other than potentially a goodwill gesture from Northern customer services.

 

[anothertyke]

Passengers have no right to Advance tickets, so a train operator could choose to intentionally withdraw them at any point if they wanted.

You don't really have any recourse in this case, other than potentially a goodwill gesture from Northern customer services.

But are day returns a regulated fare? As I understood the OP, it was impossible over the weekend to buy anything other than a standard single from Leeds to Skipton. I don't think any TOC can withdraw regulated fares just like that can they?

 

[MrJeeves]

But are day returns a regulated fare? As I understood the OP, it was impossible over the weekend to buy anything other than a standard single from Leeds to Skipton. I don't think any TOC can withdraw regulated fares just like that can they?

Only Advances are affected by this issue, because the trains are not being inserted into the industry reservations system as they are not linked to a passenger operator. Normal single and return fares are still available as they always were (at least on the sites I've tested, including the forum's).

You might face issues with buying some tickets which are routed "Northern only", but ticket offices, some ticket machines and conductors should still be able to issue these.

 

[Tom]

I'm told the underlying issue has been fixed and the operator code will be fixed in downstream systems overnight.

What the impact is on reservations, fares, etc, I do not know.

 

[somethingrando]

Normal single and return fares are still available as they always were (at least on the sites I've tested, including the forum's).

What are the sites you've tested? I'm trying Northern, LNER and TrainPal and none work... Only Northern is somewhat useable as it allows you to reserve/collect at the station (which I see a queue of people doing every morning now)

 

[xotGD]

The services are showing as Northern again on Real Time Trains, but not all allocations are showing.

 

[DarloRich]

Leeds to Skipton TOC changed? Clearly not. I would hope such a change would be mentioned in the local media! It is clearly a data glitch which looking this morning seems to have been almost fixed!

It is frustrating when these things happen but they do happen to all systems from time to time.

 

[xotGD]

Advances now available again for all services on the Northern booking site.

 

[OscarH]

It is frustrating when these things happen but they do happen to all systems from time to time.

Though in any well built system you should have some validation to prevent blatantly invalid states and mistakes like this from happening. You'd also hope for a production service, someone could have fixed a production issue with passenger facing consequences the next day, especially when alerted well within business hours.

 

[saismee]

I'll copy/paste this into an email to Northern and I'll expect a proper response only after the issue has been resolved, in 3-5 business months! I thought I'd post something here in case anyone's heard of anything

Out of curiosity, could you show us the response you receive if/when you get one?

 

[yorkie]

What are the sites you've tested? I'm trying Northern, LNER and TrainPal and none work...

@MrJeeves did mention the forum ticketing site.

Only Northern is somewhat useable as it allows you to reserve/collect at the station (which I see a queue of people doing every morning now)

I'm not quote sure what you mean by that. Most people do not want the faff of collecting an old style ticket at the station.

 

[tfw756rider]

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-change-confirmed-changes-only.286247/page-16 post #466 & #467

You can link directly to a post by right-clicking on the date on the top-left of the post and clicking "copy link address" and so on.

 

[jfollows]

You can link directly to a post by right-clicking on the date on the top-left of the post and clicking "copy link address" and so on.

Thank you; I tend to use an iPad so I had to look up how to do a right-click but now I have it and I’ll use it in future!

 

[xotGD]

Most people do not want the faff of collecting an old style ticket at the station.

They prefer the faff of not being able to get through the ticket barriers at Leeds.

 

[BurtonM]

This is probably a separate conversation to be had but, has there ever been a precedent of someone claiming refunds after being forced to spend more money on tickets due to a glitch like this? This issue has basically doubled the price of my commute due to a systematic fault (by removing the ability to buy advanced ticket). It's an interesting discussion to me, so I thought I'd ask if someone's aware of something like this happening before?

I recently had an issue with TPE where tickets stopped being sold for a valid itinerary 15 minutes before it departed, ostensibly due to a limitation of the Journey Planner interface. To avoid a potential grey area about ticketless travel I bought two separate tickets that cost ~£4 more. I tried to ask TPE if they'd refund down to the correct price as goodwill, but instead tried to tell my my itinerary wasn't valid (they'd made it up) and refused to budge. I had to get the Ombudsman involved who confirmed the ticket had been withdrawn (supposedly due to a track possession), confirmed the itinerary was valid, and had TPE pay me compensation for that, as well as giving me incorrect information and slow response times.

In this case, I don't think you'd be able to successfully argue it though as Advances are 'subject to availability' - however it is undoubtedly anti-consumer.