Leeds - Northallerton

[Halifaxlad]

Was there a plan some years back to build a diversion around Chester-le-street?

I've also always thought that York to Ferryhill/Durham should be 4-track and the linespeed on fast lines increased where possible with in-cab signalling - There are plenty of stretches where 155 mph should be possible and help to extend NPR. I also don't understand why Church Fenton's platforms need lengthening.

Also, if we're going to talk about NPR, HS2 and Church Fenton, I feel that they may as well build a chord to link the existing Leeds to York/Hull line to HS2 as seen below:
View attachment 76193
By building this chord, it would be a relatively inexpensive way of extending NPR 'proper' to York (or even Newcastle), as well as taking express trains off of the old route (which is close to capacity), enabling increased frequencies of stopping services and taking away some pathing issues.

Source - http://www.railmaponline.com/UKIEMap.php

Since this is outside the 'Newcastle - York rail investment proposals' thread in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by Jorge Da Silva, Monday 6th April at 18:21 and that I have a few idea's myself I thought I should create this dedicated thread for discussion for HS2 & NPHR and generally the lines from Leeds to Northallerton.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Here is an idea, since the HS2 spur is to finish at Church Fenton, why don't we finish what the Midland started ? I.e. the Leeds & York Railway via Tadcaster, already the viaduct through Tadcaster has been built, with the remainder of the line laid out although never actually laid (a fact that I was rather surprised by) and now built upon through Copmanthorpe.

The main benefits I see apart from providing an alternative route to York are...

Increasing the viability of a line to Wetherby with a station at Thorpe Arch. Initially a terminus but with the intention of one day reinstating the line through to Harrogate, which would be possible with a new alignment around Spofforth. Obviously it could also go around Wetherby although my personal preference is a straighter alignment.

Eventually this could provide an alternative route to Newcastle that is almost completely separated from the ECML if the lines through Ripon and Leamside are reinstated, reinstating the Leamside line in full is currently being considered by NR.

Also this would make it easier to create a Western bypass around York!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1JeClPLKqGh4R2S1UkLJ15GAMNrZ3XjTo&usp=sharing

 

[backontrack]

Here is an idea, since the HS2 spur is to finish at Church Fenton, why don't we finish what the Midland started ? I.e. the Leeds & York Railway via Tadcaster, already the viaduct through Tadcaster has been built, with the remainder of the line laid out although never actually laid (a fact that I was rather surprised by) and now built upon through Copmanthorpe.

The main benefits I see apart from providing an alternative route to York are...

Increasing the viability of a line to Wetherby with a station at Thorpe Arch. Initially a terminus but with the intention of one day reinstating the line through to Harrogate, which would be possible with a new alignment around Spofforth. Obviously it could also go around Wetherby although my personal preference is a straighter alignment.

Eventually this could provide an alternative route to Newcastle that is almost completely separated from the ECML if the lines through Ripon and Leamside are reinstated, reinstating the Leamside line in full is currently being considered by NR.

Also this would make it easier to create a Western bypass around York!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1JeClPLKqGh4R2S1UkLJ15GAMNrZ3XjTo&usp=sharing

The alignment of the old Cross Gates to Wetherby line seems to be preserved as far as to Thorner; maybe the Tadcaster route could connect to the Micklefield Line near Cross Gates via this alignment?

 

[Halifaxlad]

The alignment of the old Cross Gates to Wetherby line seems to be preserved as far as to Thorner; maybe the Tadcaster route could connect to the Micklefield Line near Cross Gates via this alignment?

Interesting I have added it as a possible route option onto the map.

My initial thoughts about this were for a fast line that avoided the need to go via Church Fenton and Cross Gates, that would have diverted at Marsh Lane towards St James Hospital before heading under Harehills in a long tunnel towards Whinmoor. Although since HS2 are proposing to construct their own line I thought it would be easier to use that.

 

[yoyothehobo]

Not that i think it would be viable, but I dont think you would actually need an avoiding line for York, but surely it would be better for the avoiding line to connect to the ECML, rather than the Leeds to York via Tadcaster line, because at least any HS2 service that were not stopping at York for whatever reason could use it.

In fact, if i were to do a York avoiding line, I would have it at Colton Junction and head to the west of Askham Bryan and go straight North to the west of Poppleton, joining at Shipton near Benningbrough.

If you are going to bypass York, probably best not to tear up the ring road in the process.

 

[Bayum]

Here is an idea, since the HS2 spur is to finish at Church Fenton, why don't we finish what the Midland started ? I.e. the Leeds & York Railway via Tadcaster, already the viaduct through Tadcaster has been built, with the remainder of the line laid out although never actually laid (a fact that I was rather surprised by) and now built upon through Copmanthorpe.

The main benefits I see apart from providing an alternative route to York are...

Increasing the viability of a line to Wetherby with a station at Thorpe Arch. Initially a terminus but with the intention of one day reinstating the line through to Harrogate, which would be possible with a new alignment around Spofforth. Obviously it could also go around Wetherby although my personal preference is a straighter alignment.

Eventually this could provide an alternative route to Newcastle that is almost completely separated from the ECML if the lines through Ripon and Leamside are reinstated, reinstating the Leamside line in full is currently being considered by NR.

Also this would make it easier to create a Western bypass around York!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1JeClPLKqGh4R2S1UkLJ15GAMNrZ3XjTo&usp=sharing

I'm not sure where the line to Wetherby would be built - there's no space, and what was the line is housing for most of it!

 

[HST43257]

If you want a railway to the Wetherby area, build it off the Leeds - York Line near Garforth and follow the A1(M), going under/over as required. It would call at Wetherby, Boroughbridge & Ripon before heading through to a Northallerton Low Level Station where stopping ECML services would also go. It could then connect up to the ECML or Middlesbrough lines heading north. I was also thinking of a new station called ”Hopperton Parkway” which would serve the Harrogate Line and this line I talk about, where they cross. Thus creating a way to come off the A1 and take a much increased Harrogate Line service into Harrogate or York. The Harrogate Line (York to Leeds) needs double tracking and electrifying for many reasons.

1) 3000 new houses are planned to be built between hammerton and cattal
2) there are already too many people taking the A59 between York, Knaresborough and Harrogate in peak times. it is too congested.
3) there should be a tram-train in from Poppleton Park and ride to the Harrogate Line at Poppleton and then into Central York via a few new housing developments by the existing rail routes. The slow lines on the ecml north of York are barely used anyway. Many people don’t have a good enough public transport option to het into York.

 

[Halifaxlad]

If you want a railway to the Wetherby area, build it off the Leeds - York Line near Garforth and follow the A1(M), going under/over as required. It would call at Wetherby, Boroughbridge & Ripon before heading through to a Northallerton Low Level Station where stopping ECML services would also go. It could then connect up to the ECML or Middlesbrough lines heading north. I was also thinking of a new station called ”Hopperton Parkway” which would serve the Harrogate Line and this line I talk about, where they cross. Thus creating a way to come off the A1 and take a much increased Harrogate Line service into Harrogate or York. The Harrogate Line (York to Leeds) needs double tracking and electrifying for many reasons.

1) 3000 new houses are planned to be built between hammerton and cattal
2) there are already too many people taking the A59 between York, Knaresborough and Harrogate in peak times. it is too congested.
3) there should be a tram-train in from Poppleton Park and ride to the Harrogate Line at Poppleton and then into Central York via a few new housing developments by the existing rail routes. The slow lines on the ecml north of York are barely used anyway. Many people don’t have a good enough public transport option to het into York.

Thanks I thoroughly enjoyed reading that.

Ive been looking again recently about how to get to Northallerton and Ripon in particular without knocking anyone's house down, whilst using as much disused line as possible and keeping costs down!

Its very similar to what you have described although I would have Ripon on a brand new spur (I suspect this is also how you proposed to connect Boroughbridge to Ripon) and keep it going up adjacent to the A1 to where it runs over the old Leeds - Thirsk railway, then terminate it at a new low level station in Thirsk, with a connection onto the ECML down line just before the existing station. Eventually I would connect it with Northallerton but I think sending it to Thirsk may be more deliverable in the short term.

The only other major difference is the Wetherby section I would use the old trackbed that passes adjacent to the Thorpe Arch estate, before heading off at Toulston on a brand new line back towards the M1, to where roughly you have described. One of the reasons for this is to allow a station at Thorpe Arch estate and a future line using more of the old trackbed and route of the never completed New Midland Leeds to York line via Tadcaster, that would connect Wetherby and Thorpe Arch up with York.

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