Ladies Only Travel

[Dent]

Except it isn't, because it is about people feeling safe. Especially as taxi drivers raping or indecently assaulting their female passengers happens alarmingly often. It's about perceptions and if they feel safer with a female driver, what's the issue?

The issue is sexism.

If someone doesn't feel safe just because their driver happens to be male then they are deeply prejudiced against that half of the population. This needs to be answered with education to teach them that their prejudice is both wrong and incompatible with a fair and equal society.

Offering a service that panders to their prejudice sends a wrong and dangerous message that such prejudice is acceptable.

 

[Via Bank]

The issue is sexism.

If someone doesn't feel safe just because their driver happens to be male then they are deeply prejudiced against that half of the population. This needs to be answered with education to teach them that their prejudice is both wrong and incompatible with a fair and equal society.

If a woman feels unsafe in a taxi because her driver is male, based on past experiences (such as being made to feel uncomfortable by a male driver, or being followed by a man on a train or a bus), that's not the woman's problem.

If a woman is discouraged from applying for a job as a bus or taxi driver, because she has had it drilled into her head for all her life that women can't drive, that's not the woman's problem. If a woman leaves her job as a bus or taxi driver because men at her company are making unprofessional remarks about her appearance, or coming onto her, or bullying her, that's not the woman's problem either.

This needs to be answered with education, to teach men and boys, from a young age, to treat women and girls as equals and humans, and not as potential conquests or delicate flower-trophies.

When half of the population is considerably more likely to be raped or sexually assaulted, and the perpetrator is overwhelmingly more likely to be a member of the other half, you cannot claim this 'prejudice' is not rooted in genuine concerns and fear.

 

[Dent]

If a woman feels unsafe in a taxi because her driver is male, based on past experiences (such as being made to feel uncomfortable by a male driver, or being followed by a man on a train or a bus), that's not the woman's problem.

If a woman is discouraged from applying for a job as a bus or taxi driver, because she has had it drilled into her head for all her life that women can't drive, that's not the woman's problem. If a woman leaves her job as a bus or taxi driver because men at her company are making unprofessional remarks about her appearance, or coming onto her, or bullying her, that's not the woman's problem either.

This needs to be answered with education, to teach men and boys, from a young age, to treat women and girls as equals and humans, and not as potential conquests or delicate flower-trophies.

When half of the population is considerably more likely to be raped or sexually assaulted, and the perpetrator is overwhelmingly more likely to be a member of the other half, you cannot claim this 'prejudice' is not rooted in genuine concerns and fear.

Having had a bad experience with one man is not justification for a prejudice against everyone in the world who happens to be the same gender. Making such a sweeping generalisation is wrong, and any "concern or fear" based entirely on a sweeping and wrong generalisation is misguided. This is what needs to be educated against.

Since the issue at hand case is some women making sweeping generalisations about an entire gender, this issue needs to be addressed by teaching people not to make sweeping generalisations. Anything else is a separate issue.

 

[BestWestern]

The idea that men need to be 'educated' to treat fellow humans with respect is rather insulting. Some men are a**eholes, certainly. Some women are equally unpleasant. However, all men are not sexual predators and as a vast demographic we should not be regarded as 'a problem'. Some women falsely accuse men of rape. Personally I think it's difficult to imagine a more vile thing to do to an innocent individual. Should all men therefore be equally paranoid of being alone with women as they apparently are of being alone with one of us?

Or perhaps we can drop the bullsh*t, deal properly and individually with the tiny minority who are a problem, and encourage people to be sensible and tolerant of those they share the planet with, rather than kicking one half of the population whilst promoting this sort of paranoia and elitism amongst the other half.

 

[Via Bank]

Having had a bad experience with one man is not justification for a prejudice against everyone in the world who happens to be the same gender. Making such a sweeping generalisation is wrong, and any "concern or fear" based entirely on a sweeping and wrong generalisation is misguided. This is what needs to be educated against.

Since the issue at hand case is women making sweeping generalisations about an entire gender, this issue needs to be to teach people not to make such sweeping generalisations. Anything else is a separate issue.

I am presuming you are a cisgender man and have never experienced the kind of insidious sexism that women experience on a day-to-day basis. (If you are not, I'm sorry.)

The reason women make sweeping generalisations about an entire gender is because in a significant minority of cases they turn out to hold true. It's not 'just one man' - it is never just one. Women are significantly more likely to be raped, sexually assaulted, or receive unwanted sexual attention than men. Perpetrators of sexual abuse against any gender are far more likely to be men.

I challenge you to tell a woman that they are not at risk from men giving them unwanted attention. Any woman. Preferably several. You'll start to see a pattern.

I know that if you tried asking, for instance, my sister, she would happily tell you about the several times she was chatted up by random strangers at the bus stop, or walking home. On her way from secondary school, in uniform.

 

[Dent]

The reason women make sweeping generalisations about an entire gender is because in a significant minority of cases they turn out to hold true. It's not 'just one man' - it is never just one. Women are significantly more likely to be raped, sexually assaulted, or receive unwanted sexual attention than men. Perpetrators of sexual abuse against any gender are far more likely to be men.

This "significant minority" is still not all men, and indiscriminately treating all men as if they were in this group is still wrong, unjust and incompatible with a fair and equal society.

 

[Via Bank]

This "significant minority" is still not all men, and indiscriminately treating all men as if they were in this group is still wrong, unjust and incompatible with a fair and equal society.

(emphasis mine)

This is literally exactly what dudes say all the time when women point out that they get patronised, pestered, assaulted, demeaned and raped by some men.

Immediately say 'not all men are like that!' without stopping and thinking about how a very large number of men clearly are.

If you are upset that women would prefer a woman taxi driver, or would prefer to work amongst the company of other women, then here's how you can help to fix it: next time you see someone in public, or in your workplace, pestering a woman, or making inappropriate sexual advances, or making sexist remarks, tell them off to knock it off.

 

[Dent]

(emphasis mine)

This is literally exactly what dudes say all the time when women point out that they get patronised, pestered, assaulted, demeaned and raped by some men.

Immediately say 'not all men are like that!' without stopping and thinking about how a very large number of men clearly are.

None of which justifies anyone making a sweeping generalisation that anyone who happens to be a particular gender must automatically be treated as a threat. Sexism remains wrong, unjust and incompatible with a fair and equal society.

If you are upset that women would prefer a woman taxi driver, or would prefer to work amongst the company of other women, then here's how you can help to fix it: next time you see someone in public, or in your workplace, pestering a woman, or making inappropriate sexual advances, or making sexist remarks, tell them off to knock it off.

I would do that anyway, not that have seen anything like as many such incidents as some would make out. I would also do the same if I see anyone doing any of these things towards a man, I respect fairness and equality. That does not do anything to educate those making sweeping generalisations about the fallacy of their attitude, that is a separate issue.

 

[Tetchytyke]

This "significant minority" is still not all men

Nobody is saying it is all men. It's thought that about 90% of rapes are committed by about 3% of the male population.

The issue is, of course, working out which men belong to the 3%. They don't, for some reason, don't go around wearing name badges that say HI I'M RAOUL, I'M A RAPIST. It's also worth pointing out that 3% means that there will, statistically, be one rapist in every tube carriage in rush hour.

It isn't all men, but given that reports say between 25 and 37% of female college students (depending on the study) have experienced rape or indecent assault, it is precious little wonder that women end up having to weigh up whether that man driving the cab is one of the 3%.

 

[BestWestern]

Nobody is saying it is all men. It's thought that about 90% of rapes are committed by about 3% of the male population.

The issue is, of course, working out which men belong to the 3%. They don't, for some reason, don't go around wearing name badges that say HI I'M RAOUL, I'M A RAPIST. It's also worth pointing out that 3% means that there will, statistically, be one rapist in every tube carriage in rush hour.

It isn't all men, but given that reports say between 25 and 37% of female college students (depending on the study) have experienced rape or indecent assault, it is precious little wonder that women end up having to weigh up whether that man driving the cab is one of the 3%.

Wow, one rapist in every Tube carriage in rush hour... Have you stepped back to appreciate what utter hysteria that is? You are actually attempting to justify and normalise the persecution of the entire male population because 3% are supposedly potential rapists. Go and apply that logic to young Muslim people sympathising with ISIS, or black youths committing gang crime in London, for example. Somebody decides to start a cab firm banning anybody who fits those demographics, is that okay too?

Jesus... :roll:

Again; we either live in a tolerant society which accepts that some people are bad but does not apply offensive stereotypes and discrimination to entire groups because of that; or we victimise whoever we like through utter paranoia. Nazis/Jews anyone??

 

[Tetchytyke]

Wow, one rapist in every Tube carriage in rush hour... Have you stepped back to listen to what utter hysteria that is?

Do you know where I can find a pet shop?

Go and apply that logic to young Muslim people sympathising with ISIS, or black youths committing gang crime in London, for example. Somebody decides to start a cab firm banning anybody who fits those demographics, is that okay too?

When 3% of "young Muslims" start walking around with ISIS backpacks full of Semtex and Uzis, get back to me yeah?

Although I would point you in the direction of the Prevent Strategy in universities, which we all have to abide by at all times, since we're on the subject of making stupid assumptions about people...

I would try and explain how the power dynamics change things, and how life is very nuanced, but you're so determined to believe that white middle class men are oppressed that there's basically no point.
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And just to add, for a bit more context, Project Guardian was set up by the British Transport Police and TfL after it emerged that 32% of women have been verbally abused on public transport, 19% physically assaulted and 15% of women have been sexually assaulted on public transport in London.

90% of sexual assaults go unreported, but even then the BTP have seen a 32% rise in sexual assaults.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...sport-is-a-problem-we-must-solve-9826153.html

But you carry on with your "not all men" wibble, whining that anyone who points out that there is a significant minority of men who are complete *%@@*!s is being "hysterical".

Nazis/Jews anyone??

I was wondering when Godwin would show up.

It's impressive how you manage to jump from a dominant population being restricted from one (now defunct) minicab company to the extermination of 6,000,000 Jewish people. You deserve a cookie.
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And one final bit of interesting reading.

 

[BestWestern]

Do you know where I can find a pet shop?



When 3% of "young Muslims" start walking around with ISIS backpacks full of Semtex and Uzis, get back to me yeah?

Although I would point you in the direction of the Prevent Strategy in universities, which we all have to abide by at all times, since we're on the subject of making stupid assumptions about people...

I would try and explain how the power dynamics change things, and how life is very nuanced, but you're so determined to believe that white middle class men are oppressed that there's basically no point.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And just to add, for a bit more context, Project Guardian was set up by the British Transport Police and TfL after it emerged that 32% of women have been verbally abused on public transport, 19% physically assaulted and 15% of women have been sexually assaulted on public transport in London.

90% of sexual assaults go unreported, but even then the BTP have seen a 32% rise in sexual assaults.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...sport-is-a-problem-we-must-solve-9826153.html

But you carry on with your "not all men" wibble, whining that anyone who points out that there is a significant minority of men who are complete *%@@*!s is being "hysterical".



I was wondering when Godwin would show up.

It's impressive how you manage to jump from a dominant population being restricted from one (now defunct) minicab company to the extermination of 6,000,000 Jewish people. You deserve a cookie.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And one final bit of interesting reading.

You can waffle and preach until you're duly fulfilled, the principles remain the same. Unfounded assumption and unjustified discrimination. And masking it with bull really doesn't alter things...

 

[duncombec]

According to an article on their own website, the firm was set up by a woman who had what could be described as an "unfortunate experience" with a taxi driver.

Is it really discrimination? I'm not sure I agree. There is a market for ladies who want to be driven by ladies. If it were discriminatory, I imagine the relevant bodies would have been all over it by now. The fact they aren't suggests not. The fact that Metro awarded them contracts suggests they don't think so. Assuming they have advertised for drivers at some point in their history, and man wanting to work would have had opportunity to bring it up. Anybody who thinks it is discriminatory is, of course, welcome to bring it to the attention of those authorities.

It is also nothing new: I have a recollection (courtesy of the Web Archive) that Oxfordshire County Council used to run a late-night, ladies-only bus service in the late nineties.

Of course, now they are running buses, and obliged to carry whoever wishes to get on the bus (within reason), the whole debate is really rather moot.

 

[Dent]

Is it really discrimination? I'm not sure I agree. There is a market for ladies who want to be driven by ladies.

If they deny their service to people purely on the basis of their gender then they are discriminating against those people. Similarly if they deny employment to anyone purely on the basis of their gender then they are discriminating against them. That is a fact, it's what the word "discrimination" means.

It is also nothing new: I have a recollection (courtesy of the Web Archive) that Oxfordshire County Council used to run a late-night, ladies-only bus service in the late nineties.

What has weather it is "new" got to do with anything? Discrimination is discrimination regardless of whether is it "new".

 

[455driver]

Seems as stupid as arguing that Bravissimo are sexist because they don't sell men's underwear.

It could be argued that the man gets as much entertainment as the women do from those 'items'!
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I am a train driver, what if FGW decided they didn't want to carry any women on their trains, you lot would be up in arms, what is so different from that and this LOT actively banning men from their cabs?

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Does this come from being one of those taxi firms with only female drivers?

which given we are talking Bratfud probably does really rather well given the cultural (NOT religious) issues among a proprtion of the local pop.