Join the Forces and see interesting rail locations?

[Calthrop]

This post suggested to me, by recent RailUKForums archive-browsing. Am looking back firstly – but not exclusively -- to times 60 / 70 years ago. I find myself clearly on the “older” end of the Forums’ demographic; but my 1948 birth-date made me too young by half a dozen years, to be liable for National Service: Britain’s anomalous spell of peacetime universal conscription, running 1945 – 1960. I am very glad that this is the case: am convinced that I would have been beyond useless as a soldier, sailor or airman, and that I would have found the entire experience, total hell and misery. At ages of ten / eleven, I felt twinges of anxiety about the prospect not all that many years ahead, of having to do National Service; and was highly relieved when the institution was done away with.

The only conceivable “plus” for folk such as me, that I can see in the whole deal; is that a spell of conscription into the Forces might have the upside for a railway enthusiast, of taking him to places, in his own country and / or abroad, which he might well not have had the chance of getting to at the same age, “under his own steam”. I don’t think I’ve ever talked in person about the subject, to a fellow-enthusiast who was of an age to be liable for National Service; but recall reading the odd memoir in railway magazines, by chaps whose conscription in that era, took them to good rail-type places of which they could take advantage in their leisure hours – there comes to mind one such bod who went into the Navy, which stationed him for a considerable period on the Isle of Man.

Would be interested to hear from any participants on the forums, who have enjoyed experiences of railway interest consequent on their serving in Armed Forces (British or otherwise) – anyone that bit older than me, who did have to do British National Service in the fifteen-year “window” concerned; or folks who served in other times / places.

 

[Springs Branch]

This is an interesting question from Calthorp, and I hesitate to go off on a tangent so early in the piece - but during the National Service era, was any attempt ever made to place those who were unsuited to hard physical activity into slightly more appropriate roles in the military?

If you had been the weedy lad with thick glasses who always came top of the class in physics & maths, or the fat kid who was always last pick for the football team and got put into goal - were you more likely to spend your National Service as a radio operator, or as a storeman in the Quartermaster's Store, rather than running up mountains in Snowdonia with a heavy pack on your back and a Sergeant-Major snapping at your heels?

Or were there enough medical conditions like poor eyesight, asthma or flat feet which could get you out of National Service completely?

(I won't disclose which of the above two characters I resembled most, but luckily I was slightly too young to be faced with this character-building experience)

 

[Calthrop]

I have some interest – perhaps of a bit of a morbid kind – in this subject (National Service in Britain, 1945 – 60) – largely, I reckon, because of my great thankfulness for having been spared it.

There are, of course, lots of non-combatant “support” roles in the modern armed forces; and from what I have heard and read, many 1945 – 60 conscripts were employed on these kind of duties, rather than “at the sharp end”. One would reckon that sensible attempts were often made to fit “horses for courses”; though also -- in the experience of many -- the military can be quite amazingly stupid, and can put people into slots for which they are extremely ill-suited.

While I’m very unathletic, and a hater of all and any sport-like activities -- the aspect of potential conscription which scared the heck out of me, was not the “athletic / ferocious” stuff; but the factor, as in somebody’s description of being in prison in the USA, of: “sub-optimal accommodation, and extremely sub-optimal neighbours”. It was the “neighbours” bit which worried me, a nerdy / dreamy / eccentric kid who was natural bully-bait. I feared being put through hell by uncouth and nasty peers, and angry and hyper-demanding NCOs.

I seem to get the picture that quite a lot of guys were adjudged medically unfit for National Service for one reason or another, and thus excused from serving. Seemingly, the authorities were able – with the whole male population of the UK of the appropriate age to pick from, and with the country not actually in a shooting war – to be quite choosy in this respect.

Re the roles which conscripts were put into; I recall listening to a former work colleague of mine, who did National Service from 1952 to 1954. He was taken into the RAF; although, from when I knew him, he seemed a reasonably physically-fit type – he was assigned throughout his service, to clerical duties: he never left Great Britain, and never in any way got “up close and personal” with an aeroplane. (As part of his clerical training he was taught to touch-type, which proved useful for him employment-wise later on.)

 

[Iskra]

One of my Granddads was conscripted into the Navy as a fire fighter on aircraft carriers. He therefore ended up doing a lot of travelling on trains up through Glasgow, the Highlands and the Far North Line to Scapa flow. I'm not sure if this was on normal service trains or Navy Specials derived from the Jellicoe Specials that a forum member recently discussed in this part of the forum. He obviously travelled around the Med on his aircraft carrier a lot too.

My other Granddad was sent to Cyprus with the RAF as an engineer to work with the early jet fighters.

Both were from West Yorkshire and definitely wouldn't have travelled where they did if it wasn't for National Service. My Navy granddad seems to have quite enjoy his National Service, my RAF granddad remains fond of the RAF, but not so much Cyprus.

Although not related to National Service, I have the forces to thank for some of my railway trips as an RAF cadet: from Leeds to St. Austell (an early Voyager trip when they had novelty value) to visit RAF St. Mawgan, Newquay to Leeds (GNER HST, which was actually quite special but not appreciated at the time) and also Leeds to Princes Risborough to visit RAF Halton. Annoyingly, I also travelled to a lot places served by fantastic trains by minibus instead, such as Kingussie in the Highlands and Anglesey when Pendolino Drags were common.

 

[Calthrop]

My other Granddad was sent to Cyprus with the RAF as an engineer to work with the early jet fighters.

Both were from West Yorkshire and definitely wouldn't have travelled where they did if it wasn't for National Service. My Navy granddad seems to have quite enjoy his National Service, my RAF granddad remains fond of the RAF, but not so much Cyprus.

Your grandfathers weren't railway enthusiasts, I take it, so "relishing rail stuff" is moot -- but I note that your RAF grandad wasn't keen on Cyprus. I gather that things got rather nasty there from the early-ish 1950s, with different bunches of locals wanting to be rid of British rule, on different and irreconcilable terms, and getting violent about it: if he was there after that stuff set in, his lack of love for the place is understandable.

Cyprus had a very delightful 2'6" gauge railway, which lasted until abandonment at the end of 1951 (before the abovementioned unpleasantness seriously blighted life on the island). I recall a magazine article by a chap whose National Service took him to Cyprus circa 1949 / 50, in the last years of the island's railway: in his leisure time, he explored it in depth and took delight therein.

 

[Iskra]

Your grandfathers weren't railway enthusiasts, I take it, so "relishing rail stuff" is moot -- but I note that your RAF grandad wasn't keen on Cyprus. I gather that things got rather nasty there from the early-ish 1950s, with different bunches of locals wanting to be rid of British rule, on different and irreconcilable terms, and getting violent about it: if he was there after that stuff set in, his lack of love for the place is understandable.

Cyprus had a very delightful 2'6" gauge railway, which lasted until abandonment at the end of 1951 (before the abovementioned unpleasantness seriously blighted life on the island). I recall a magazine article by a chap whose National Service took him to Cyprus circa 1949 / 50, in the last years of the island's railway: in his leisure time, he explored it in depth and took delight therein.

My RAF granddad is/was (currently in a care home with dementia) a rail enthusiast. He introduced me to railways.

Yes Cyprus did get nasty. He didn't discuss the nasty side of things, but was more critical about drill and long guard duties in the hot weather, I think he also found it exceptionally boring. Wars/conflicts are often depicted as exciting, but boredom and tedium are a common, underrated theme in most wars for most of the people involved.

Such a shame, foreign narrow gauge railways are always the most exotic. I doubt there's much of a Cypriot railway scene, but I suspect if such a line were restored it would prove quite popular.

 

[Calthrop]

My RAF granddad is/was (currently in a care home with dementia) a rail enthusiast. He introduced me to railways.

Ah, I assumed wrongly. I'm the only person in my family to have fallen victim to this particular "disease" (i.e railfan-dom); so tend to feel that that applies to everyone !

Wars/conflicts are often depicted as exciting, but boredom and tedium are a common, underrated theme in most wars for most of the people involved.

Indeed -- the description one hears of active warfare: "95% boredom, 5% terror".

Such a shame, foreign narrow gauge railways are always the most exotic. I doubt there's much of a Cypriot railway scene, but I suspect if such a line were restored it would prove quite popular.

Sadly for any idea of long-term survival / revival of the Cyprus railway: the (unfriendly) border between Greek Cyprus and Turkish North Cyprus, set up after the 1974 invasion of the former from Turkey, coincides to a great extent with the railway’s route – the latter being sometimes one side, sometimes the other, of the border.

There’s a sequence of YouTube videos – about half an hour in all – on the Cyprus narrow-gauge line

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzTGncZ9o4c

Very interesting as regards the railway’s history; but contains next to no cine film of the railway – many stills, and some “cartoon-type” sequences.

Further re the Cyprus railway and servicemen’s experience thereof: I once worked with a chap who had been conscripted into the Army either in World War II or quite shortly post-1945. He had been sent to Cyprus; and talked (unprompted) of him and his squad having been conveyed by rail from Famagusta to Nicosia in open wagons. After the journey, they all had to be “issued with new kit” – their clothing having been ruined by sparks and smuts from the loco ! My colleague sounded, about this, basically resigned / amused. As mentioned earlier, armies quite often exhibit colossal stupidity...

 

[CarltonA]

Here's some railway recollections from my army service in the 1970s/80's:

Using Ludgershall station and the branch for military excursions to Thetford and Liverpool Lime St via some interesting routes.

A signal check at Clapham Junction on a military special which was diesel hauled and yet the public still tried to get on until they spotted the heaps of weapons and ammo boxes piled in the corridors.

A victualing stop at Kensington Olympia in the days when the station and route were closed to normal passenger trains.

Sometimes we had a reserved portion of stock added to a normal service such as when we went to Plymouth. Just outside Plymouth we were held for a two and a half hour signal check. As we were in a separate DMU added onto the back of the service train there was no communication from anyone. No toilets either on the 1950s bog unit, not very convenient.

Mostly we got some funny looks from the public who were expecting a two or three car train for their commuter service when our mark one corridor stock diesel loco hauled trains rattled through their stations. As I say, quite often they tried to get on in spite of announcements and staff shouting if we stopped in a station, though it should have been obvious it was not their usual train. We tried to encourage the nice young ladies, but they were wiser than most.

 

[Calthrop]

Here's some railway recollections from my army service in the 1970s/80's:

Using Ludgershall station and the branch for military excursions to Thetford and Liverpool Lime St via some interesting routes.

A signal check at Clapham Junction on a military special which was diesel hauled and yet the public still tried to get on until they spotted the heaps of weapons and ammo boxes piled in the corridors.

A victualing stop at Kensington Olympia in the days when the station and route were closed to normal passenger trains.

Sometimes we had a reserved portion of stock added to a normal service such as when we went to Plymouth. Just outside Plymouth we were held for a two and a half hour signal check. As we were in a separate DMU added onto the back of the service train there was no communication from anyone. No toilets either on the 1950s bog unit, not very convenient.

Mostly we got some funny looks from the public who were expecting a two or three car train for their commuter service when our mark one corridor stock diesel loco hauled trains rattled through their stations. As I say, quite often they tried to get on in spite of announcements and staff shouting if we stopped in a station, though it should have been obvious it was not their usual train. We tried to encourage the nice young ladies, but they were wiser than most.

That's the trouble with nice young ladies -- they're well-attuned to the wiles of nice young men...

Have recently been reading up on the Mid-Norfolk Railway -- realising that it's one of our more interesting and worthwhile preservation scenes (had been a bit oblivious to it hitherto, largely because of its not being highly steam-oriented, while not eschewing the use of brought-in steam now and then). It seems that it serves some army venues, including a battle-training area: has been used for taking equipment, plus presumably handlers of same, in and out -- another way for service personnel to get rare-ish track?

 

[birchesgreen]

Or were there enough medical conditions like poor eyesight, asthma or flat feet which could get you out of National Service completely?

Yes my Dad had asthma and flat feet so was turned down.

 

[Cowley]

Growing up as I did in Topsham on the Exmouth line there used to be special trains in the 1980s around Christmas time I think to pick all the young trainee Marines up from Lympstone Commando. The trains were made up of at least 10mk1s top and tailed with various different locos bound for destination unsure.
It was a bit of an event to see a proper train on the line in those days so we'd go up the road to see it coming back up the line. I saw one top and tailed with a 50 and 31 and another one with a 47 and 31.
My friend was getting the train home from Exeter with his family one day in the 80s expecting the normal 3 car 118 unit to turn up when to his astonishment one of these specials rolled into Exeter Central with a Peak on the front plus a 31 on the rear and the waiting passengers were told to join it as it was running in the path of the normal service.
He is indeed a jammy s*d.

 

[Calthrop]

Yes my Dad had asthma and flat feet so was turned down.

I recall from reading Michael Caine's autobiography, that he was medically rejected for National Service. I forget the reason -- it wasn't anything particularly obvious, and Caine was surprised at being turned down for whatever it was (and pleased -- he hadn't wanted to have to sacrifice a couple of years of his life doing stuff which he would consider foolish, and leading nowhere re his chosen career).

To the best of my knowledge, no-one in the family which I come from, was in the appropriate age bracket to undergo 1945 -- 60 conscription: all were born "too early" or "too late".

 

[PeterC]

Luckily I am too young for National Service but recall my father and uncles talking about troop trains in the war.

Regardless of the start and end points of the journey they all recalled being held up at Pontypool Road.

As an air cadet in the 60s I recall the tracks of the range railway at Purfleet but it didn't look as if it had much use by then.

 

[Calthrop]

Luckily I am too young for National Service but recall my father and uncles talking about troop trains in the war.

Regardless of the start and end points of the journey they all recalled being held up at Pontypool Road.

Following on, on the general "World War II / railways / Wales" theme: I recall a job I had in the early 1980s. My boss there had served in WWII -- in the Navy IIRC, but largely shore-based: he spent much time at the North Wales end of Cardigan Bay. He recalled (not exactly fondly, but I think with a bit of the glamour cast by "its being a long time ago") of exasperating waits at Afonwen junction: which, for that reason, he and his colleagues dubbed "If-And-When". Presumably: relatively meagre services in the first place, "pruned" because of wartime priorities, and subject to disruption because of various wartime stuff...

 

[FGW_DID]

Slightly more recent times:

Southern Iraq (near Basrah) in 2005. I snapped a couple of shots, out the Land Rover window of some random rolling stock that appeared abandoned in the middle of nowhere!

 

[Calthrop]

Thanks, FGW_DID -- recent-ish railway photographs from Iraq, are something not often met with ! With the way that people have, of letting what one wants to see, triumph over what one knows with one's head: your furthest-right frame had me thinking, "Steam !?", and rushing to enlarge it...

In fact, if I have things right, Iraq remained potentially interesting for lovers of steam traction until quite late in the day in global terms. The last part of the country's rail system to stay on metre gauge -- the lines generally north-east of Baghdad -- remained metre-gauge and steam-worked, until very late in the 1980s; after which they were standard-gauged and dieselised. Oddly, few if any enthusiasts went to "value" the last of Iraqi steam -- I can't imagine why not . (Actually, that exercise might have been more feasible than people would think -- over the decades, a fair number of basically nasty totalitarian states were found to be tolerant of visiting railway enthusiasts / photographers: the obsessive "gricer = spy" mindset seems to have been a peculiarity of European Communist countries.)

 

[Cowley]

Thanks, FGW_DID -- recent-ish railway photographs from Iraq, are something not often met with ! With the way that people have, of letting what one wants to see, triumph over what one knows with one's head: your furthest-right frame had me thinking, "Steam !?", and rushing to enlarge it...

In fact, if I have things right, Iraq remained potentially interesting for lovers of steam traction until quite late in the day in global terms. The last part of the country's rail system to stay on metre gauge -- the lines generally north-east of Baghdad -- remained metre-gauge and steam-worked, until very late in the 1980s; after which they were standard-gauged and dieselised. Oddly, few if any enthusiasts went to "value" the last of Iraqi steam -- I can't imagine why not . (Actually, that exercise might have been more feasible than people would think -- over the decades, a fair number of basically nasty totalitarian states were found to be tolerant of visiting railway enthusiasts / photographers: the obsessive "gricer = spy" mindset seems to have been a peculiarity of European Communist countries.)

Did I read somewhere that there were some 8Fs in Iraq at some point?

 

[Calthrop]

Did I read somewhere that there were some 8Fs in Iraq at some point?

8Fs got to the Middle East in some quantity, thanks to the events of World War 2: "off top of my head", recall that they ran on 4ft 8-and-a-half in. gauge lines in various countries in that area, including Iraq. Turkey had some: the country was neutral in WW2, wooed by both sides, including aid in the shape of then-modern locomotives -- Turkey got both 8Fs from our side, and "Kriegslok" 2-10-0s from Germany -- both classes worked on the Turkish railways, for decades after the war's end.

After its 1948 creation, Israel ended up with some 8Fs which were there at the time: I think I've read that Israel's last regular-service steam working, in 1959, was hauled by an 8F.

 

[quarella]

My dealings with rail transport of the military was on telephone enquiries and later in a booking office during the mid to late 1990s.
The number of times mum would make the call with information being relayed. This would usually be on a Sunday afternoon with an expectation to travel from some rural location in the South West of England or vice versa to a remote northern base with insufficient time to reach there. Mum would then be saying "But he'll be on a charge."