Issued with an incident report form!

[rubix]

Hi, I was recently stopped and given an incident report sheet after there was an issue regarding the ticket I had bought.
I am now going out of my mind with worry as all I’m reading is, it will end up in court and will result in a criminal record. If I receive a criminal record I know my career is gone and worry that I won’t be able to travel to America..
so my question is, do cases end up in court often or can someone tell their experience of a similar situation?


Thank you!
R

 

[notmyrealname]

Hi.

I can see that you're imagining all sorts of things that may not happen, people do.

Could you post the document you were given please so the pros here can see what's gone on? Cover up your name, address and any reference numbers.

 

[jfollows]

Welcome and don’t panic!

Please explain the “issue” with the ticket you had in more detail, then with the documentation we can probably help you with this.
Many people don’t end up court if they engage with the process and we can help with this.

 

[rubix]

Hi, thanks for the reply.

For some reason it won’t let me post a photo..

It’s an incident report form with a REF number. It has the details of the date and time I was stopped and my name and address. It doesn’t say anything else apart from I will hear in writing from the transport investigations limited and may be summoned to court.

Any advice is massively appreciated, I’m literally panicking.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Hi, thanks for the reply.

For some reason it won’t let me post a photo..

It’s an incident report form with a REF number. It has the details of the date and time I was stopped and my name and address. It doesn’t say anything else apart from I will hear in writing from the transport investigations limited and may be summoned to court.

Any advice is massively appreciated, I’m literally panicking.

Do you have any idea why you've been reported?

What was the "issue" with your ticket?

Which train company are you dealing with?

 

[rubix]

So long story short.
I arrive at a train station near Newport (can’t remember the name) and met up with some friends. We board the train and as it’s been years since I boarded a train I was planning on paying the fare to the conductor (there was a machine at the station) more friends joined us as we passed through different stations, one had said he had already bought a ticket, I then mentioned about buying one but one of my mates said he was buying the tickets for some of us as we’d paid for food earlier on in the week.

We arrive in to Cardiff and headed straight for a ticket machine. My one mate clicked the ticket options and the other tapped his card. My mate then handed us the tickets and we then walk down the lanes towards the ticket inspectors. I casually handed over my ticket and they informed me that this ticket was from the Cardiff station back to Newport and wanted the ticket used to get to Cardiff.

Obviously I couldn’t provide it. It was then they asked me what station I got on at. The station I told them wasn’t the station on the ticket so my mate had clearly tried to save move and shorten the journey.

We was taken to a side room and the 5 of us were asked to give details etc and then they let us go but said expect to hear from us and handed us the incident report forms each.

I have every intention of paying I honestly did!

Before heading to the inspector I should have checked the tickets but I had no intention to as I thought we’d paid and we could go and enjoy the city.

I have never worried about something so much.

Any advice is appreciated!

 

[Gloster]

So you don’t even know what station you started from? What station did you tell them you had come from?

 

[rubix]

We boarded at Cwmbran, I believe the ticket was showing a station 1 possibly 2 stations before Cardiff I can’t remember and they kept the tickets.

 

[AlterEgo]

We boarded at Cwmbran, I believe the ticket was showing a station 1 possibly 2 stations before Cardiff I can’t remember and they kept the tickets.

So basically you short fared and have committed an offence. TFW will be in touch in due course and will often ask you to give your side of the story. They may be amenable to settling out of court but it will usually be for the fare due plus an administration charge of perhaps £100 or so. Do let us know when you receive any correspondence from them and we can help further. It’s unlikely this will actually end up in court.

 

[WesternLancer]

So probably will be dealt with by IRCAS on behalf of TfW.

Did you give an accurate name and address. This is important as it’s vital you receive the letter in the post they will almost certainly send you about this.

Unfortunately they will see the ticket your friend bought as short faring and thus deliberate attempt at fare evasion. This won’t help. But court can be avoided with help from here hopefully.

 

[rubix]

Thank you, yea they have the correct details.

Have you heard of anyone going to court?

I have so much to lose if this goes that far, it was a honest cock up and one that I’m truly sorry for. It was never my intentions

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you, yea they have the correct details.

Have you heard of anyone going to court?

I have so much to lose if this goes that far, it was a honest cock up and one that I’m truly sorry for. It was never my intentions

Yes. People do get taken to court. Hundreds of people for fare evasion. But they will mostly be people who bury their head in the sand and hope it will all go away and do not engage with the process which is how to try and avoid court.

I assume some of your group are also in the same position? You need to share the advice given here with them too so they know what to expect.

As a general rule you need to buy before you board. Even if you are buying on line the ticket MUST be bought before stepping on the train or a offence is committed.

 

[rubix]

Thank you for the advice. Just wish it was a quick process. I feel like such a fool, I should have just bought at the station. I even tried to buy online while on the train but couldn’t get signal and then was told my mate was buying it.

Five of us got caught, two of us are really worried and the other three just believe we’ll just receive a fine in the first letter.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you for the advice. Just wish it was a quick process. I feel like such a fool, I should have just bought at the station. I even tried to buy online while on the train but couldn’t get signal and then was told my mate was buying it.

Five of us got caught, two of us are really worried and the other three just believe we’ll just receive a fine in the first letter.

You will not receive a fine in the first letter from what we see of cases on here. It will threaten prosecution but ask if there are any mitigating circumstances. That will be your chance to apologise for the mistake and request if they will let you resolve the matter without court action.

When you get the letter post an anonymous copy of it here for advice on how specifically to reply. Alert your mates.

Your mates maybe thinking of the posters you see on stations about Penalty Fares that are £100 like a spot fine. But unless that was issued when you were stopped you will not be getting one of those in the post unfortunately. I say unfortunately because they are easier to resolve and can be reduced to £50 by prompt payment.

 

[thedbdiboy]

A Penalty Fare will not be an option as the Penalty Fare scheme is not currently applied in Wales.

 

[WesternLancer]

A Penalty Fare will not be an option as the Penalty Fare scheme is not currently applied in Wales.

Thanks for adding that as I was unaware when I posted.

 

[Hadders]

Just to add a but more to what's already been said.

You are required to possess a ticket for your journy when you board the train, unless facilities to purchase the ticket you want using your chosen payment method are not available at the station where you start your journey. An open ticket office or ticket machine counts as an opportunity to purchase a ticket.

From what you've told us you boarded the train without a ticket and this is a criminal offence. It is not the same as a parking ticket. TfW are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they wanted to.

What will happen next is they will write a threatening letter to you in the next few weeks saying that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you but asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. It is very important that you reply to this letter. I suggest a short, concise reply mentioning the following points:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

TfW are normally prepared to offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before. Expect to have to pay the cost of the fare avoided plus an admin fee, typically £150. Paying an out of court settlement might feel like paying a fine but technically it isn't - only a court can impose a fine as a punishment upon conviction so you really don't want to pay a fine! You won't have a criminal conviction if you pay an out of court settlement.

When it arrives, post a copy of the letter from TfW in this thread along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you. Do redact any personal details before uploading.

 

[185143]

A Penalty Fare will not be an option as the Penalty Fare scheme is not currently applied in Wales.

Yes it is. Albeit at the 'old' rate of £20 or twice the single whichever is highest.

Penalty Fares | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

 

[AlterEgo]

To be clear, penalty fares do operate in Wales but the OP won’t be getting one as they have been reported for prosecution.

Penalty Fares are only ever issued at the time of the stop and cannot be a retrospective sanction.

 

[rubix]

Thank you all so much for the advice!
Wasn’t expecting such a prompt response.

Do you normally have to write back to them after receiving the letter or is there an option to email? I’m sure I seen an email draft on another tread.

Im at the end of my law degree, with plans to use it for my permanent citizenship in America. Obviously, if this goes to court then all this is refused.

 

[WesternLancer]

The letter will tell you what methods you can use to reply if they accept email. Etc. but that isn’t an insurmountable problem surely.

You are some way off court at this stage and if you thought that was likely then you also have the option of gettyhelp from a rail fares expert solicitor to try and avoid it if you are worried about career impact of what happened.

In the meantime you could check some other threads on here involving TfW for info on how others have been dealt with and you could read TfWs revenue protection policy. Should be on their website.

 

[John R]

Im at the end of my law degree, with plans to use it for my permanent citizenship in America. Obviously, if this goes to court then all this is refused.

You say there was a ticket machine where you boarded, and undoubtedly there will have been signs telling you to buy before you board, if the station is in a penalty fare area.

So I suggest if you are about to become a lawyer then you need to be somewhat less cavalier in future with ensuring that you abide by the law of the land, and in particular pay the same attention to detail that you will have to in your day job. You will probably have a lucky escape here and be offered a settlement, but you need to take this as a wake up call for the future, as your regulator will take a very dim view of any transgression that might be construed as deliberate.

 

[thedbdiboy]

Yes it is. Albeit at the 'old' rate of £20 or twice the single whichever is highest.

Penalty Fares | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

Yes, sorry, previously they hadn't been enforcing them but it seems now they are albeit at the 'old' rate as they chose not to be included in the 2022 amendment. As noted it's irrelevant in this case as no PF was issued.

 

[Tevion539]

A Penalty Fare will not be an option as the Penalty Fare scheme is not currently applied in Wales.

This is incorrect. TfW operate a £20 or double fare penalty. Have done for a few months.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Nov 2024 ==

Yes, sorry, previously they hadn't been enforcing them but it seems now they are albeit at the 'old' rate as they chose not to be included in the 2022 amendment. As noted it's irrelevant in this case as no PF was issued.

Apologies, didn't see this reply before posting.