Is the UK economy "two speed"

[RT4038]

The UK is famous for the Industrial Revolution. Some who prospered or who were political reformers came from dirt poor, or lower middle class, beckgrounds. They never gave up, and in the process created arguably a better world.

Well quite! Before the industrial revolution the green team was much smaller. but that didn't mean the red team were any better off. Probably the opposite.
It must be a better world - it gave us steam locomotives!

 

[yorksrob]

. In this regard your choice of life partner is very critical; while you need to be a willing acceptor of the compromises, there are many many upsides to a shared life. A specific financial example is that when I had 6 months between jobs once in my career, my wife stepped up and worked more days for a while.

This is a good point. I have always been a single person and am happy to be that way, however I'm acutely aware that a break in employment could be precipitous.

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I don't think it is Government particularly - it is society of this and virtually every other country.

There will always be red team people. But it doesn't have to be you.


As I said, it is an option, but not one that I would advise. Each to his own. You are rewarded - you have to sacrifice less (work, pleasure) to become and/or remain a green team member.

There will always be red team people, in that there will need to be people who undertake unskilled work, and there will be people who can't work for whatever reason, however in a civilised society they should not be forced into permanent destitution.

 

[E27007]

Really good for you to share your experience and background. It appears that you have the degree, the potential and drive however are lacking experience, guidance and support to get you on that career ladder?

Have you venturing into Linkedin to network and build contacts?

Have you tried to find a mentor who could advise and support you find your dream role in maths or IT? Even in Leeds, there are lots of jobs in these fields- heck my firm is investing lots in AI and has a base in Leeds who are heavily recruiting. I therefore don't quite agree with your view that there is a saturation of IT specialists.

An issue is a "world-wide" resource of specialists via the Internet, which affect may local emplyment in Leeds, a friend from the USA, spent his entire working life in IT, a systems architect with IBM for one, and owned an agency for coders on contrct work describes programmers in the USA as "Cannon Fodder", Cannon Fodder because India is full of English-fluent skilled and productive programmers who deliver source code for a fraction of the rates of USA personnel.

 

[nw1]

One of the problems we have as a society is that there is less social interraction between green and red. I'm "team green" and I meet "team red" people at church but most of the people I work with do not meet anyone "red" except in a transactional way

And most people in politics/media/business (including on the left of politics/media) are "team green" with no understanding of what being "red" means and this often leads to policies (political or employer-specific) that are bad for "team red". For example, I know of a company that tried to move from weekly to monthly pay for its hourly ("red") staff..... (Also, without wanting to derrail the conversation, this lack of influential "red" people is perhaps one of the reasons that the political/media class was so surprised by Brexit.)

Not so sure as Brexit has done absolutely nothing for "red" people, in this context. It's one of the biggest lies of our time that it has; it was simply a vanity project to boost the Conservative Party's electoral performance and the ego of various (wealthy and throughly "green") Conservative politicians, the most prominent of course being one A. B. de Pfeffel Johnson.

Better things for "red" people are surely measures such as tighter regulation of energy companies to prevent bills rising, or more generous benefits and other financial help from government - including raising income tax for the better off to fund such measures, if necessary. Surely such measures are more likely to help people struggling than Brexit?

Put it this way, if I fell on hard times then Brexit would be doing absolutely zilch to ease the pain. Regulation of energy and water companies, and benefits from the Government, might.

 

[Broucek]

Not so sure as Brexit has done absolutely nothing for "red" people, in this context. It's one of the biggest lies of our time that it has; it was simply a vanity project to boost the Conservative Party's electoral performance and the ego of various (wealthy and throughly "green") Conservative politicians, the most prominent of course being one A. B. de Pfeffel Johnson.

Better things for "red" people are surely measures such as tighter regulation of energy companies to prevent bills rising, or more generous benefits and other financial help from government - including raising income tax for the better off to fund such measures, if necessary. Surely such measures are more likely to help people struggling than Brexit?

Put it this way, if I fell on hard times then Brexit would be doing absolutely zilch to ease the pain. Regulation of energy and water companies, and benefits from the Government, might.

I think we're at cross purposes. I believe the analysis shows that a majority of "red" people voted for Brexit. They will have done so for a variety of reasons, some good and some bad. But that's not the point I was making: rather I was highlighting that these voting choices were a surprise to the business/media/political elite because they don't *know* any "red" people! I once heard a senior BBC reporter say that, "the only Brexit voter in my circle was the lady who does my makeup" - she was honest enough to admit that she'd not considered that the make up lady may be more representantive of the average voter than her other colleagues and friends....

 

[E27007]

I think we're at cross purposes. I believe the analysis shows that a majority of "red" people voted for Brexit. They will have done so for a variety of reasons, some good and some bad. But that's not the point I was making: rather I was highlighting that these voting choices were a surprise to the business/media/political elite because they don't *know* any "red" people! I once heard a senior BBC reporter say that, "the only Brexit voter in my circle was the lady who does my makeup" - she was honest enough to admit that she'd not considered that the make up lady may be more representantive of the average voter than her other colleagues and friends....

100%, the Brexit Referendum represented the protest vocality of the Red team, not the Green team, the Red team, living in straightened circumstances, low and lowering social mobility , wage stagnation and wage erosion through the influx and competition of low-skilled migrants from East Europe, it is the clear conclusion from the socio-demographic analysys of the referendum voting of the various areas of the UK.

 

[Sm5]

It comes down to a discussion we had a couple of weeks ago about the housing situation. People would have more appetite to take entrepreneurial risks that a Western society demands if they didn't have the very close risk of losing their home.

There are other ways, back in 2016 I had an idea for a business, but had little capital I was prepared to risk.
The idea turned out popular as I got 5 offers of Vc funding. The problem was by the time I would have the capital in place i’d have such a minority share in my own business it wouldnt be worthwhile.

Cap it all, an EU grant which would have sealed it and got it over the line got caught up in a certain UK vote.

Hence I walked away. The idea remains viable and a bank recently asked if I was still interested, but to work as an employee to over see building it for them, but that kind of defies the point.

Have a good idea, theres plenty of people who would be happy to take a slice or all of it!

As it is, the current system of mortgages is tantamount to 21'st century feudalism with the banks as the lords of the manor.

I love this example.

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An issue is a "world-wide" resource of specialists via the Internet, which affect may local emplyment in Leeds, a friend from the USA, spent his entire working life in IT, a systems architect with IBM for one, and owned an agency for coders on contrct work describes programmers in the USA as "Cannon Fodder", Cannon Fodder because India is full of English-fluent skilled and productive programmers who deliver source code for a fraction of the rates of USA personnel.

Those in India as coders are in the red team, and maybe first victims of AI too.

the green money in AI will be in concept, strategy, design, management and promotiom, not development and operation.

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I made the mistake of learning visual basic from 2014 onwards but since 2021 I have been focussing on python, SQL and powerbi. In early 2023 I paid for and completed an AI course. However employers in Leeds are not interested despite all the media fuss about AI.

i feel your pain and ive been there.
Its about persistence, but hold your standard.
Those qualifications make the grade.
AI is a lot of hype (and ive seen endless investors running a circus on this), bottom line is they arent ready yet.
Once they have their ideas in place, then they are going to need to start recruiting.

I would say look in to Strategy, Design and principles like project management and agile… theres going to be a crunch need for people with these disciplines specifically with knowledge of AI, who are also code savvy and can direct a design of software.
Throw in App Modernisation and try to be cloud agnostic.

You will be competing against those with those principles, but in conventional IT, looking to make the switch, but by all accounts your on the new tech side already.

good luck it will come, and Leeds is a good hub.

 

[yorksrob]

There are other ways, back in 2016 I had an idea for a business, but had little capital I was prepared to risk.
The idea turned out popular as I got 5 offers of Vc funding. The problem was by the time I would have the capital in place i’d have such a minority share in my own business it wouldnt be worthwhile.

Cap it all, an EU grant which would have sealed it and got it over the line got caught up in a certain UK vote.

Hence I walked away. The idea remains viable and a bank recently asked if I was still interested, but to work as an employee to over see building it for them, but that kind of defies the point.

Have a good idea, theres plenty of people who would be happy to take a slice or all of it!



I love this example.

I can imagine it must be quite disheartening having other people muscle in on your business idea.

I hope you get to realise it on something more approaching your own terms !