'Ironing Board' seats

[Bletchleyite]

Why are the 387 seat backs so much higher than the 700s? Clearly there are safety standards, but if the 700s can be lower then why couldn't the 387s?

They are exactly the same seats, aren't they?

 

[Great_Western]

Those are not "ironing boards", they are an older design. On Southern Electrostars with "ironing boards" the seating is the same throughout the train.

It's also the same seat found in 172's, Miseryrail 507/8's and Chiltern 165's isnt it? To be honest, I find them far worse than ironing boards, which for a journey of an hour or less, I think are perfectly adiquate.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's also the same seat found in 172's, Miseryrail 507/8's and Chiltern 165's isnt it? To be honest, I find them far worse than ironing boards, which for a journey of an hour or less, I think are perfectly adiquate.

Yep. I think they are OK but "ironing boards" are better.

 

[route101]

Arent Scotrail 156s meant to get ironing boards .

 

[Starmill]

They are exactly the same seats, aren't they?

Depends what you mean. They use the space less efficiently because they are mounted lower down without armrests or spacers, so when it's busy people spill out into the aisle taking up more room than on a 387, where everyone fits within their seat. They use different cushions too.

 

[jon0844]

Ah, it must be the mounting that makes them seem lower. It does make the 700s feel more spacious though, that's for certain.

387s always appear cramped. 365s with their lower seat backs, and lack of arm rests, are definitely the best.

 

[387star]

Depends what you mean. They use the space less efficiently because they are mounted lower down without armrests or spacers, so when it's busy people spill out into the aisle taking up more room than on a 387, where everyone fits within their seat. They use different cushions too.

The cushions are slightly more comfortable than 377/6-387 seats

 

[43096]

The cushions are slightly more comfortable than 377/6-387 seats

Which is like saying sitting on a slightly less sharp spike is more comfortable. They are still horrible seats.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which is like saying sitting on a slightly less sharp spike is more comfortable. They are still horrible seats.

In your opinion, but not in mine

They are not the best Standard seat (that accolade goes to this[1] similarly Marmite one in my book) but they are in my view by no means the worst, particularly when in 2+2 formation with armrests, though I'd still rather the narrower (Class 700) version than the awful space-wasting[2] Mk3 EMU seat found in 319s and such.

[1]

[2] So "laid back" that in facing formation about 30cm of legroom is wasted (as commuter trains aren't exactly full of large luggage) between each set of seat backs that could be my legroom. More upright seats would mean more legroom or more seats - either would be an improvement.

 

[Sprinter156]

Arent Scotrail 156s meant to get ironing boards .

Yeah, 156510 left Glasgow Works on 23/06/17. It's the first one with ironing board seats.

 

[Hadders]

Yeah, 156510 left Glasgow Works on 23/06/17. It's the first one with ironing board seats.

Blimey, I thought Bedford to Brighton on an ironing board is badenough but Glasgow to Mallaig will be torture. Better hope Scotrail provide cushions for passengers...

 

[superalbs]

Yeah, 156510 left Glasgow Works on 23/06/17. It's the first one with ironing board seats.

Welcome to the forum!

Do you have any pictures of this, it sounds truly awful.

 

[387star]

Blimey, I thought Bedford to Brighton on an ironing board is badenough but Glasgow to Mallaig will be torture. Better hope Scotrail provide cushions for passengers...

Appalling if true what happened to the great scenic lines of scotland idea

That said just travelled ona 377/6 from vic and I thought the seats are more comfortable than the ironing board seats on 377/1-5 at least

 

[Sprinter156]

Welcome to the forum!

Do you have any pictures of this, it sounds truly awful.

No sorry but someone has a recent video on youtube of it passing Barnhill. You can clearly see the seats.

 

[Sprinter156]

Blimey, I thought Bedford to Brighton on an ironing board is badenough but Glasgow to Mallaig will be torture. Better hope Scotrail provide cushions for passengers...

I think they'll be getting 158's in a few years, although 156's are staying in South Scotland.

I feel like the class 156's will have the same seats as the 385. Apparently the 385 seats would have a bit more padding or something. Thats what some people are saying lol

 

[superalbs]

No sorry but someone has a recent video on youtube of it passing Barnhill. You can clearly see the seats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRusrIk6x-s

Found it.

What an absolute joke. I was considering doing this line later this year, don't think I'll take the risk now. :mad:

 

[Bletchleyite]

By contrast, seats with a high base will improve the view over the sitting-on-the-floor style originals.

 

[Mordac]

I think they'll be getting 158's in a few years, although 156's are staying in South Scotland.

I feel like the class 156's will have the same seats as the 385. Apparently the 385 seats would have a bit more padding or something. Thats what some people are saying lol

Imagine doing Glasgow to Dumfries in one. Almost as bad.

 

[tankmc]

We are now stuck with these awful seats on the Kings Lynn branch. Perfectly fine if you are are just going 10-20 minutes but any longer and they are totally inadequate. You end up with back and bum pain by the time you reach kings Cross.

 

[superkev]

This month Modern railways mentions the spec for the new HS2 quotes a seat spacing of 500mm based on the 95% male of around 6ft 3".
How this compares with say Northerns designed for dwarf seating I've no idea.
Also, although leg length is related to height I've known some short people mainly ladies with very long legs.
K

 

[physics34]

We are now stuck with these awful seats on the Kings Lynn branch. Perfectly fine if you are are just going 10-20 minutes but any longer and they are totally inadequate. You end up with back and bum pain by the time you reach kings Cross.

We need to protest more

 

[387star]

Can those 387 seat bases have better padding or would the seats require complete overhaul

 

[387star]

A lot of exhaust on that 156 lol

 

[superalbs]

Imagine doing Glasgow to Dumfries in one. Almost as bad.

Or Glasgow to Carlisle. That's over two hours.

 

[Mordac]

Or Glasgow to Carlisle. That's over two hours.

I omitted that one because surely if you were doing Glasgow to Carlisle you'd go by the WCML? Maybe if you were going all the way to Newcastle and that saved you having to change trains, in which case it'd be even worse.

 

[samuelmorris]

This month Modern railways mentions the spec for the new HS2 quotes a seat spacing of 500mm based on the 95% male of around 6ft 3".
How this compares with say Northerns designed for dwarf seating I've no idea.
Also, although leg length is related to height I've known some short people mainly ladies with very long legs.
K

Surely not? Is that spacing width-wise? 500mm seat pitch would only fit double amputees.

 

[superkev]

Surely not? Is that spacing width-wise? 500mm seat pitch would only fit double amputees.

Looking at modern railways again something defiantly wrong with the numbers.
In standard class it quotes "airline seating knee room for 95th percentile male is 80mm with 160mm sitting opposite. First is 2540mm and 500mm respectively."
I suspect they meant 80cm/ 160cm. And 254cm/500cm.
K

 

[samuelmorris]

knee room is an odd term to use - is that meant to be the gap between the edge of the seat base and the one in front? My understanding of seat pitch is that it's the entire space between the rear of one seat and the rear of the next one - either way, 80mm of space in front of the seat would again be entirely inappropriate. 80mm in front of my knees would be about right, but whose knees would you measure? I think 800mm seat pitch sounds more likely, that's 31.5" which is fairly typical.

 

[fgwrich]

I'm sure there will be more pictures released in time (or when it enters service) but there's a picture on Transport Scotlands website now.

https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/latest-scotrail-fleet-upgrades-on-track-for-delivery/

Latest ScotRail fleet upgrades on track for delivery


On show was the latest upgraded class 156 diesel train, part of £16m refurbishment programme, It features new seats along with power sockets, new flooring, livery, accessible toilets and dedicated wheelchair spaces.
Owned by Angel Trains and leased to the ScotRail Alliance, the unit has had a full internal and external repaint plus energy efficient lighting and Wi-Fi installed.
Humza Yousaf, Minister for Transport and the Islands said
“We are investing £5 billion in Scotland’s railways to 2019 to ensure that as many people as possible have access to a modern, efficient rail network. In recent years we have introduced 160 extra carriages with an extra 180 to follow. This delivers more than 50% extra carriages since 2007 in the ScotRail fleet.
“As well as introducing new trains, we are modernising the existing fleet such as these class 156s. This will make a real difference for passengers, including myself as I use these trains regularly, delivering better on train facilities and making fleets more accessible all across Scotland. This builds on seven months continuous improvement in franchise performance.
“Good, high quality refurbishment can deliver a passenger experience comparable with new rolling stock, which is a sustainable approach and it has also guaranteed jobs at the Knorr Bremse factory at Springburn.”
The ScotRail Alliance Engineering Director Angus Thom said:
“Seeing the refurbished Class156s now appearing on the network is great news for customers as the improved connectivity and enhanced comfort they offer are what everyone who travels by train now expects. We’ll see a steady flow of these refurbished units in service around East Kilbride over the remainder of 2017 and beyond.”
Angel Trains dedicated on-site project management team is working closely with KBRS Springburn to oversee the £16m works. Along with the repaint, new seats, tables and at-seat power sockets have also been installed. Work on these fleet upgrades started in February 2016 and is due to complete in March 2019.
Malcolm Brown, CEO at Angel Trains said:
“We are delighted that this refurbishment programme will significantly improve the experience of passengers, will provide the ScotRail Alliance with an excellent and cost-effective alternative to new vehicles, and will boost the Scottish economy through employment in Springburn.”

 

[Bletchleyite]

knee room is an odd term to use

It is, but it's an important one, because not only pitch affects space, also thickness. Ironing boards are acceptable at a much tighter pitch than IC70s as a result.