Firstly, the thread title is nonsensical. like something you'd see on a cheap tabloid, the ITG are still going with their primary aim, with some of their locos regularly in action in the DCDR. Not mainline running but I think they've achieved a lot of such a small organisation in the last few years. My original reason for joining the ITG (still a member) was that I liked the idea of preserving Irish diesels. They have done this and continue to do this, despite having a small band of volunteers. I commend them for this, they're a shining example of perseverance in the face of adversity.
Please see below the statement the Irish Traction Group have made :
During the course of the meeting a discussion was held regarding the operation of railtours by the Irish Traction Group, both in Ireland and the UK. The Chairman , K.Manto explained to the meeting that the operation of locomotive hauled railtours within in Ireland is now entirely dependant on being facilitated by the RPSI. Unfortunately, due to the costs involved and limited availability of suitable routes, and varied motive power, coupled with the current economic, the operation of such railtours in Ireland is no longer financially viable. The Treasurer, P.Jones also indicated that the operation of Railtours in the UK would not be entertained at the present time due to the high costs and risk involved. The subject regarding "Mini Tours" by road transport to preserved railways was also discussed. The Chairman reported that this subject has been discussed at various times in the past, however, the distance and travelling time involved effectively ruled out most destinations.
See my points below about their rubbish above :
1. RPSI - They are the only group who own locomotive hauled rolling stock now. The ITG are being selfish here by not hiring out rolling stock and it seems clear that they don't like the RPSI by their comments made above. Don't Spitfire/Pathfinder/Retro/Steam Dreams Railtour all hire out stock from a provider such as West coast etc....
Selfish? :? I don't believe there's any animosity between the groups, indeed I recall ITG and RPSI workers often having our lunch together when working on vehicles at Inchicore. I'm a volunteer with the RPSI and actually have lay membership of the ITG (DCDR too). They seem to get along fine. You also have to account for the fact that the RPSI needs to slot in charters among its main program, with the exception of the Santas they generally leave at least one week between operations, remember that apart from the hired in IÉ driver(s), DTE and guard, the RPSI operates entirely with volunteer staff, before it's suggested that a more trips could be added to an intensive program.
2. Suitable Routes - That's lame really. There is still plenty of suitable routes to do in Ireland with a locomotive. Another way of the ITG saying "We're not interested".
Yes there are still routes available, but not as many. You have to take into account a number of factors, routes are indeed more limited than they were a few years ago, runaround facilities have been removed in a number of places, necessitating the presence of a shunt release loco (adding to expenses). In some cases there also train size restrictions (Midleton for eg.), which of course limits the revenue earning potential. In some cases there's little variety available, in the case of Sligo and Rosslare you have to go back out the way you came, and there seems to be less uptake on tours with limited routing. (There was only circa. 160 on their last tour which ran to Sligo). There are other factors as well, very few people with guard certs these days, and those who do only have route knowledge for certain routes, so you have to factor in guard availability, etc. Anyone with who knows the railway these days will tell you this.
Then of course you have people who chase tours without buying a ticket, which they're entitled to do of course, but this brings in diddly-squat to an operator.
Why the hell did the put locomotives in the middle of no where if they weren't easy to get to?
Could you explain how leaving 124 in the arsehole of no-where is restoring something? A place with no gauge of track for the thing to run? Coaching stock? Why didn't they preserve coaches from Irish rail then they wouldn't have to go near the RPSI?
Benefit of the public? Hardly when it's no where handy as they've already stated
The WCR offered them the space, which they needed, DCDR could hardly take everything! There is a plan to develop a museum there, if you're an ITG member you'll know this from reading the journal. Can you provide them with somewhere better? As for preserving coaches, they had difficulty raising money for buying locos as it is, and the key ""unique" Irish stock (Cravens) were preserved by the RPSI anyway. (Laminates were mostly gone by the time the ITG was formed, and again the RPSI/DCDR have a few).
Again, this comment makes no sense. The ITG was always a preservation group first, and railtour operator an aside.
I don't know about GB but on Ireland it seems that when it comes to preservation there a plenty out there ready to tell groups what they should do, but few who will actually answer "the call to arms" and actively help.
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First of all Roy, the ITG are making statements here that aren't true. The last time they ran a tour using the RPSI stock it was a shambles cause it was 40mph all day and that was basically it. Sligo & back too (Yawn)... They ought to use their heads and have a good run with a 071 to Cork with 8 cravens behind (who cares if they belong to the RPSI). If they offer a decent ticket price, and offer a decent trip I don't see why it wouldn't pull off.
At the time the Heritage set was all that was available. The RPSI generally only certifies either the Cravens or the Heritage Set for an operation in a particular year as there is not enough volunteers to maintain two sets all year round. (And in any case there is only room in Inchicore to store one complete rake, the other being split up at various points about the yard). In 2010 the Heritage Set was the running set for the year, yes it's restricted to 40mph and to the Sligo/Rosslare routes but most of the RPSI's regular runs are on those lines anyway.
In any case it was the first time the ITG had operated a tour to Sligo in nearly fifteen years, made a nice change as the Waterford/Limerick area routes had been the focus of many tours during the 2000s.
It's correct that the ITG is not simply there to run railtours, but it's hard to see what is the point of having a collection of main line diesels without a line to run them on unless you're going to run railtours. Public interest? Forget it. Ireland is very different from the UK in that interest in the railway is not in any way mainstream, and even steam gets scant support. Irish preservation is heavily dependent on outside support (especially from GB), and the best way to get people to incur all the costs of travel to and accomadation in Ireland is to run something more interesting (a railtour) than hoping that people will come from Britain to stand in a silent shed somewhere in Co Tipperary looking at old GMs.
The ITG are based in Carrick simply because it was the only place available at the time, they originally wanted Portarlington but the shed was demolished by IÉ. They get by with a very small group of workers, I'm only a lay member (I volunteer for an other organisation) but I've a lot of respect for them.
As for statements like "however, the way you are treating them, I am likely to join them just to show support and that their efforts are appreciated by some", this is just the sort of childish attitude that will actually fit very well into the fractured and fractious Irish scene, without adding one bit to improving it.
The Irish scene is not fractured, people within the four main groups (RPSI, IRRS, ITG, DCDR) get on very well. I'm a member of all four myself. The RPSI gave the ITG batteries for 146 when it replaced the ones in B142 with a different type, in the days when the ITG and RPSI were based in Inchicore it was not unknown for us to have our lunch together, when the RPSI got a mess coach the ITG volunteers used it. There are obviously strong links between both groups and the DCDR as well, look at the locos and carriages based there.
I don't think Roylang was being childish at all.
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As for the costs, well, running tours in Ireland is not comparable to here as the railways aren't privatised and there isn't somebody wanting his pound of flesh at every turn. The extremely reasonable prices charged are evidence of this (£25 for Steam Enterprise from Whitehead to Dublin and back with the RPSI using their own traction and stock).
The Steam Enterprises are the exception rather than the rule. The reason for the cheap pricing is because they would otherwise have to run as a light engine move anyway (to swap the Whitehead and Dublin based RPSI locos), so by having a relatively low price it at least gets some revenue onto the train.
ITS is an extablished part of the NI preservation scene and knows more than most about what it takes to organise tours over there.
With all due respect, a photography site doesn't really make one "part of the preservation scene".
