Intermodal loading with longs gaps

[richieb1971]

I know i'm on a crusade to find answers lately.

As an enthusiast who films the WCML quite regularly it astonishes me how many trains have sporadic loading patterns along the train.

Why would you load a train like -


XX__________XX_______X_______X_________X_______________XXXXXXX

Surely by doing this your creating more drag (Trains like this blow over my tripod if close enough), using more fuel and creating a problem at the recipient end where the unloaders have to transcend the whole train to get to the remaining boxes. Seems like the most inefficient way of doing it EVER.


Thanks for your responses.

 

[GB]

Trains are not generally planned like that. However a lot depends on what has happened at the point of origin/loading. Trains out of Felixstowe have their containers preplanned to specific points on the train. Sometimes containers miss the train which can create large gaps...the more that miss the larger the gaps.

Sometimes cranes fail so unable to load certain sections. Sometimes the inbound train is very late and its a case of put the containers where ever you can before lock up time.

 

[DarloRich]

sometimes the boat is late, sometimes the train is late, sometimes boxes get washed overboard, sometimes the crane breaks, sometimes there isnt enough time to load the train between boat arriving and train leaving etc etc.

 

[richieb1971]

Blimey. So in effect your saying that if you have half a train, some ship sank, some crane failed or some boxes didn't turn up for some reason.

It sounds like the logistics process is a bit like booking a seat at the cinema. So you look at the pattern of taken seats and its sporadic based on peoples comfort zones and everyone has to sit in their respective seat.

I assume the TOC gets paid no matter whats on the train?

 

[DarloRich]

Blimey. So in effect your saying that if you have half a train, some ship sank, some crane failed or some boxes didn't turn up for some reason.

It sounds like the logistics process is a bit like booking a seat at the cinema. So you look at the pattern of taken seats and its sporadic based on peoples comfort zones and everyone has to sit in their respective seat.

I assume the TOC gets paid no matter whats on the train?

It is mainly about getting the train and boat to the dock at the correct times - that is crucial. Obviously the train wont wait for a delayed boat as goods already loaded onto the train may have a finite life and the onward distribution chain is stood idle.

 

[GB]

Blimey. So in effect your saying that if you have half a train, some ship sank, some crane failed or some boxes didn't turn up for some reason.

To an extent yes...though I can only talk about Felixstowe. How other locations work maybe different.

It sounds like the logistics process is a bit like booking a seat at the cinema. So you look at the pattern of taken seats and its sporadic based on peoples comfort zones and everyone has to sit in their respective seat.

Not entirely. A cinema you are free to move to a vacant seat if you like. You can move containers (and indeed there maybe an operational reason to move one or more containers) but its quicker and easier to keep them in their assigned places where possible.

I assume the TOC gets paid no matter whats on the train?

Depends how the contract is set up. Some trains will be paid at X amount regardless of how many containers are on it. Other trains are paid purely on how many and *what containers are loaded.

*Different rates for different customers may apply.

 

[Greybeard33]

Southbound trains from Trafford Park often have random-looking gaps. Presumably in that case the lorries have failed to turn up on time?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There's also (less so in GB but particularly on mainland Europe and in the US) trains which are split en-route. As a fictional example, if a train leaves Felixstowe with the front half of wagons bound for Glasgow and the rear half for Manchester, the service will run as far as Crewe before being split... However if it was simply loaded from the front with any empty wagons left at the rear, this would need more fiddly marshalling at Crewe, as some of those empties may be needed on the next southbound from Glasgow to take exported goods (fat chance, I know!). So if you've 40 wagons, 20 for Glasgow and 20 for Manchester, but only 15 boxes going to each, you may still need all 20 for each return so can't simply remove the vacant wagons.

 

[edwin_m]

Some trains also have a mix of low-height and standard height wagons, and on certain routes the larger containers have to go on the low-height section. The WCML is fully gauge cleared but the trains in question may continue onto more restricted sections.

 

[richieb1971]

Sounds like a complex setup. As usual there is a logical explanation.

Thanks.

 

[Bald Rick]

It is simply to reduce derailment risk. A container train with, say, the front half loaded and the back half clear has a higher risk of the back end snaking / bouncing around and coming off. This is why you will always find a container on the rearmost wagon. Similarly a train with about 10 boxes on will have them spread throughout the train, albeit not evenly. This limits the potential for the light wagons to misbehave.

Essentially the flats are loaded to keep the gaps between the boxes to a certain maximum.

Incidentally this was all discovered the hard way when Freightliner trains started.

 

[GB]

It is simply to reduce derailment risk. A container train with, say, the front half loaded and the back half clear has a higher risk of the back end snaking / bouncing around and coming off. This is why you will always find a container on the rearmost wagon. Similarly a train with about 10 boxes on will have them spread throughout the train, albeit not evenly. This limits the potential for the light wagons to misbehave.

That may have been the case years ago but certainly not so these days. There is currently no loading standard that states the rear wagon must always be loaded or that containers should be spread throughout the train.

 

[najaB]

There is currently no loading standard that states the rear wagon must always be loaded or that containers should be spread throughout the train.

I've certainly seen trains running with an empty rear wagon.

 

[3973EXL]

Simple version:

RSSB GO/RM3056 Working Manual for Rail Staff
Freight Train Operations
Section J

Starting point, all FOC must comply with.

Main points:
Form RT3973CON required to be completed and given to train crew. This is the authority for movement for load units outside the Standard Loading Gauge W6A.
This is a NetworkRail produced form for the route of the train.
It lists the authorised route, any conditions of travel and the wagon types with the maximum permitted box size that can be loaded on that wagon (different wagons have different platform heights above rail level).
This information is also used as part of the loading plan.

Load units must be secured at all four corners.

Load units must be loaded as per the train operates (FOC) loading manual.

FOC Loading Manual

This will show the wagon type, loading position of units on the wagon platform, combination of load units (40' 20' etc) and the max GLW of each box. This is based on the wagon design.

There is also a best practise element such as loading units so there is no access to doors, or loading in a position that if the doors were to become open, they could not go out of gauge.

So, with the 3973, the Loading Manual provides the necessary information to produce a loading plan for the train.

Eg. 5 x 20' x 9' 6 x 30t GLW units to load on wagons with 60' platform. The 3973 tells you wagon A can only load 8' 6 but wagon B is OK for 9' 6.
Although you can fit three on a platform of wagon B, the loading manual gives a max of 20t GLW if loading 3. At 30t GLW it shows only 2 can be loaded, one at each end of the platform. This will leave one more unit and the Loading Manual shows it should be loaded in the centre of an empty platform.

If the loading complies with the 3973 and FOC Loading Manual, you can load where ever you want.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Ha !

As a mere youth in 1979 and a BR Traffic Management trainee ,allocated to Freightliner , we were drilled on safe and efficient train loading by some hardened Inspectors.

+ Plan your train
+ Heavy loads on wagon ends -over the springs. (especially tank containers)
+ If train not fully booked - maximise loadings at the loco end , minimise air gaps - so a fully loaded front portion causes more air drag than a randomly loaded 20 set.
+ Obviousley take into account dangerous goods / vulnerable loads - latter placed as near to the loco as possible. (wines / spirits / fags / mail / TV's etc)
+ Always walk around any departure twice , not once . - look up as well as mid -point to check twistlocks , and any hanging obstructions up above.
+On departure , see the train off personally - in dark shine a light on wheels to ensure no overcharged / dragging brakes.
+Observe any passing train - never turn your back on a train (now happily retired , I still do so)


And a hell of a lot more on load security etc. So yes - a train with few air spaces between chunky containers is more fuel efficient.

Wont go into detail on wagon checking / brake tests and the joy of shunting at 3 am in January.

 

[3973EXL]

Lot simpler in those days:

One wagon type (5 wagon sets FGA outers FFA Inners).
No 9' 6 units.
Better ratio of 20' to 40' units for maximising loading.
No spigots.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Lot simpler in those days:

One wagon type (5 wagon sets FGA outers FFA Inners).
No 9' 6 units.
Better ratio of 20' to 40' units for maximising loading.
No spigots.

Certainly was - 5 sets only ( bar a few odd 2 sets for the Fords flow from Harwich)

We did have a very near miss with one of the very first 9'6 boxes (and I am talking 1982 here) - when an United States Line box was sent from Holyhead to Felixstowe on the 03xx train , a sharp clerk noted the USLU9xxxx number on the consist , called Ipswich Yard and asked them to stop train which was done at the Derby Road home signal. Just as well , as yours truly got there and confirmed it - climbing on top showed no brickwork etc - (but we got Ipswich Tunnel blocked and checked) + the other Regions advised for safety checks.

Got a 31 on the other end , pulled the train back at dead slow speed to Ipswich Lower Yard and craned the box off , and roaded to the port. Said clerk got a commendation and some cash , Holyhead Overseer got a Form 1 !

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Had the train not been stopped - the rather nice lattice footbridge at Derby Road would have been destroyed.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Lot simpler in those days:

One wagon type (5 wagon sets FGA outers FFA Inners).
No 9' 6 units.
Better ratio of 20' to 40' units for maximising loading.
No spigots.

Lot more 20' boxes - often badly overloaded - declared 20t often 24t - culprits being a well known Italian firm with yellow boxes.

Old trick of observing springs and drawbars with a pen / pencil inserted.

 

[GB]

Lot more 20' boxes - often badly overloaded - declared 20t often 24t - culprits being a well known Italian firm with yellow boxes.

Ha, nothing changes there then!

 

[tiptoptaff]

Ha, nothing changes there then!

When I worked in the shipping industry we used to call them the Maffia

 

[ac6000cw]

[Off-topic] Not intermodal loading, but one example of how not to arrange a train consist I remember reading about in the US 'Trains' magazine was: locos + 100 empty coal hoppers + 50 loaded iron ore cars. So that's a mile or so of empties (about 3000 tonnes) followed by half a mile of loaded cars (about 6000 tonnes) on the end. It was described as handling like 'A brick on the tail of a kite' - it must have been a good test of driving skill to get that safely over the hills and dales...

 

[telstarbox]

Who owns the boxes (not the contents?)

 

[GB]

The shipping companies.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Who owns the boxes (not the contents?)

Or leasing companies ....

 

[DarloRich]

Or leasing companies ....

or the storage companies