Interesting standing capacity figures from DfT

[northwichcat]

From the relevant franchise agreements DfT say the total capacity of the GWR 153s (seated and standing) is 83, while they claim the Northern ones can take 98 passengers. DfT claim the ex-LM 150s at Northern can carry 204 passengers, while the ones at GWR can only carry 194 passengers and the best one is that the Northern 3 car 158s can carry 122 standing passengers while the GWR ones can only carry 22 standing passengers.

Do DfT think there's some very large passengers in the South West or some very skinny ones in the North?

 

[PeterC]

Are the internal configurations identical?

If they are identical then have the DfT determined the capacities or are they taking the operators' figures?

Does somebody want to over estimate capacity on the Northern franchise to disguise their overcrowding problems?

For the 3 car 158s the difference between 122 and 22 looks very much like a simple typing error.

 

[PHILIPE]

Haven't the people at the DFT got something better to do than this ?

 

[fgwrich]

Haven't the people at the DFT got something better to do than this ?

Like Anglia / TSGN / VTWC / Not meddling with fingers in pies? Etc... Cough Cough.

With regards to the 150s - Are they talking about the /1s at GW or the Ex Wessex /2s though?

 

[AlterEgo]

Haven't the people at the DFT got something better to do than this ?

Better things than working out the capacity of trains for franchise specifications? Eh?

 

[PHILIPE]

Better things than working out the capacity of trains for franchise specifications? Eh?

I thought they counted seats for that.

 

[northwichcat]

Like Anglia / TSGN / VTWC / Not meddling with fingers in pies? Etc... Cough Cough.

With regards to the 150s - Are they talking about the /1s at GW or the Ex Wessex /2s though?

Ex LM150/1s in both cases and Angel Trains 153s with 75 seats in both cases.

 

[AlterEgo]

I thought they counted seats for that.

Not when people have to stand.

 

[hwl]

From the relevant franchise agreements DfT say the total capacity of the GWR 153s (seated and standing) is 83, while they claim the Northern ones can take 98 passengers. DfT claim the ex-LM 150s at Northern can carry 204 passengers, while the ones at GWR can only carry 194 passengers and the best one is that the Northern 3 car 158s can carry 122 standing passengers while the GWR ones can only carry 22 standing passengers.

Do DfT think there's some very large passengers in the South West or some very skinny ones in the North?

In addition to different internal configuration there may well be big differences in passeneger journeys the stock is used for, so larger numbers of standing on a 158 with a high churn rate is really going to kill dwell times.
Similar things can be seen (are discussed) in the SWT ITT docs so wouldn't surprise me if the thinking was being applied elsewhere too.

 

[northwichcat]

In addition to different internal configuration there may well be big differences in passeneger journeys the stock is used for, so larger numbers of standing on a 158 with a high churn rate is really going to kill dwell times.
Similar things can be seen (are discussed) in the SWT ITT docs so wouldn't surprise me if the thinking was being applied elsewhere too.

Currently Northern seem to use 158s on various types of routes in Yorkshire from local stoppers to semi-fasts to regional express services, so basically any type of journey. Although, that will likely change when they get the 195s will will be operating on most semi-fasts and regional express services in Yorkshire from 2018.