installing LCD dynamic passenger information displays in trains

[miklcct]

On railways in other countries, most have some form of route display in the trains, on older trains they are in form of blinking dots, and on newer trains, in form of LCD display showing the next stop, the route of the train, interchanging stations or even exit information as the train is approaching the station.

The trains I have taken in the UK have none of these, including the classes 377, 444, 450 which are supposedly new trains built in the 21st century when such stop displays are already commonplace around the world.

For example, the class 444 should have been installed with a route map showing the South Western Main Line (and also other lines which the 444 run on) above the train doors, with dots representing the stations which light up when the train will call at the station.

And now we have already entered the LCD era where trains and buses all over the world are fitted with monitors showing next stops, etc., but none of the trains I have taken have any useful display of the route it will travel with the calling stops.

Is it possible to retrofit the trains with LCD displays above the door showing the route and interchange stations, like what happened in Hong Kong when the 4, 7 or 12-car SP1900 EMUs were modified to 8-car train sets? For example, for a class 444 running on the South Western Main Line, it can show the route from Weymouth to London Waterloo on the LCD with calling points, and denote Southampton Central as an interchange station to Salisbury & Bristol, Brockenhurst as an interchange station to Lymington, etc.

 

[Lewlew]

London Northwestern 350s have had screens added by the doors but facing into the saloons. They work quite well rotating between calling pattern, news, weather and safety messages but the text is a little small so can be hard to read from the middle of the carriage.

 

[zwk500]

700s and 345s already do have LCD displays, retrofitting older trains is more tricky as it may not be the same control cable as the LED displays.

Light up route maps are only suitable for.metros, where stock is dedicated to 1 or 2.lines, and each line is relatively simple. 444s are used on so many combinations of routes it would be nigh on impossible to design a map that could be readable in the space available. The SWML has stops far enough apart that the printed map is sufficient (and won't break down)

 

[miklcct]

700s and 345s already do have LCD displays, retrofitting older trains is more tricky as it may not be the same control cable as the LED displays.

Light up route maps are only suitable for.metros, where stock is dedicated to 1 or 2.lines, and each line is relatively simple. 444s are used on so many combinations of routes it would be nigh on impossible to design a map that could be readable in the space available. The SWML has stops far enough apart that the printed map is sufficient (and won't break down)

If a train always call at all intermediate stops, then a printed map is sufficient.

However, the services where the 444 runs do not have a fixed stopping pattern that a passenger has no way to know where the train will stop on board if he cannot hear the announcement clearly.

 

[Nym]

The problem in the UK isn't fitting them, as Northern are showing with the "Digital Train" programme. The issue is that in the UK, no-one really knows how to use them properly to their advantage and in many circumstances make them worse at showing information than the previous dot matrix signs. Usually due to mis-using the creativity of the system and not acknowledging the significant shortfalls of the cheap equipment selcted (see. Northern). Anything about these new displays on Northern, and to a slightly lesser extent Crossrail show how not to do it, compared with the Thameslink method which has worked rather well, because neither a ToC, the DfT or TfL were involved in the design of what is shown to the customer!

RE Desiro UKs, the Annax scrolling LED displays fitted are in my opinion, electrically and visually one of the best in the UK, if not the best. And what is being done by supplementing these with 'pretty' displays is much better than what the likes of LNER were relying on with their pretty but poorly programmed, minimum cost, lowest bidder system from KeTech, little more than some TV screens with an embedded PC frigged to make it work on a train with an old RIA-12 specified supply (Mk.4s)

 

[D365]

... little more than some TV screens with an embedded PC frigged to make it work on a train with an old RIA-12 specified supply (Mk.4s)

Is RIA-12 really all that difficult when compliant DC-DC converters are available from Martek & co. Or am I too new to the industry for it to be that simple!

 

[zwk500]

If a train always call at all intermediate stops, then a printed map is sufficient.

Not so, major/minor stops can be easily indicated.

However, the services where the 444 runs do not have a fixed stopping pattern that a passenger has no way to know where the train will stop on board if he cannot hear the announcement clearly.

I suppose with an lcd screen you could easily change the maps per route, but the value is low for main line runs with long gaps between stops.

 

[Nym]

Is RIA-12 really all that difficult when compliant DC-DC converters are available from Martek & co. Or am I too new to the industry for it to be that simple!

Shoving a front end supply in position is fine, as is a properly specified filter, provided an EMC assessment of attached cables is done. Any number of suppliers are available (I don't get people's obsession with Martek, if you're new to the trade, there's plenty of others out there, feel free to DM...).

The general quality of the KeTech equipment is as much if not more of a concern. Call me old fashioned but when I need to use a slim line RJ45 connector (that costs around £20ea) on something like a Mk.4 that was designed in mind of the old requirements using "chunky" connectors, it doesn't fill me with faith. Indeed there are just "issues" with them that I've been having.

 

[172007]

WMT's 172's have the LCD screens, a number per carriage approx 21". They have been tweaked and taken a little effort to get right but they are now really very good.

They show the next stop, where the train is for, calling pattern and also realtime trains connections Inc cancelled trains. General information is also shown. All it needs to show now are connections for other companies as they are missing.

The screens when they have had a little issue and not worked initially hinted at showing how loaded each carriage is in the formation using the passenger counting equipment and also BBC news.

 

[Lewlew]

All it needs to show now are connections for other companies as they are missing.

The ones on the 350s (which I guess are the same) show London Overground connections at Euston, Harrow and Watford Junction and I'm sure I saw Avanti services on them as well

 

[py_megapixel]

The screens when they have had a little issue and not worked initially hinted at showing how loaded each carriage is in the formation using the passenger counting equipment and also BBC news.

They work quite well rotating between calling pattern, news, weather and safety messages but the text is a little small so can be hard to read from the middle of the carriage.

I am very much against the "BBC News Headlines" feature on the WMT ones. Firstly it takes space away from the actually important things like the calling pattern, but secondly, I often like to take a train journey if I feel anxious because I want to relax and get away from the real world for a bit, and it does feel a bit depressing to be surrounded by the news headlines even then.

If anyone wants to look at the news they can do it on their own personal device. The screens exist to communicate information that is guaranteed to be pertinent to everyone on that train - so route and connection information.

 

[172007]

I am very much against the "BBC News Headlines" feature on the WMT ones. Firstly it takes space away from the actually important things like the calling pattern, but secondly, I often like to take a train journey if I feel anxious because I want to relax and get away from the real world for a bit, and it does feel a bit depressing to be surrounded by the news headlines even then.

If anyone wants to look at the news they can do it on their own personal device. The screens exist to communicate information that is guaranteed to be pertinent to everyone on that train - so route and connection information.

BBC / Sky news are the default office reception (main offices in major cities let's say) default. I guess that where the Directors who make these decisions have caught the idea from.

I agree they should not show the news and also should not be used for adverts.

 

[miklcct]

WMT's 172's have the LCD screens, a number per carriage approx 21". They have been tweaked and taken a little effort to get right but they are now really very good.

They show the next stop, where the train is for, calling pattern and also realtime trains connections Inc cancelled trains. General information is also shown. All it needs to show now are connections for other companies as they are missing.

The screens when they have had a little issue and not worked initially hinted at showing how loaded each carriage is in the formation using the passenger counting equipment and also BBC news.

Well done WMT. This is what I am expecting.