Incorrect Train Tracking - Annoyed of Deganwy!

[Horizon22]

Don't believe what the computer tells you.
The website ought to be programmed to tell you 'no data' rather than 'delayed', which would be more accurate

Unfortunately "no data" (i.e no train movement) will ultimately lead to "delayed" after a certain period of time for pretty much all CIS providers. Which is broadly the right way to do it and I am pretty sure teams where there is manual reporting know how important it is to input data. GPS data is a supplement but it can be patchy and spawn weird results. Of course other more important incidents can happen, but it is key. It is somewhat shocking a quarter of the way through the 21st century that we have parts of the railway that work like this but of course without investment, it is what it is..

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Aug 2025 ==

Exactly this. I keep reading that accurate lat/long reporting isn't something the industry is that interested in though. They're happy with signalling berths. Personally I think they're missing a trick, as the travelling public has got used to apps like PlaneFinder, BusTimes etc, and there does seem to be a demand for live train maps. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part

For all the complaints about rail information, I find stationary digital bus information to be much more of a fiction, if it is even provided.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Aug 2025 ==

Maybe - its use at Parkway seems to be very intermittent and when it is used for west/southbound trains it will show long before the train is even in sight. Its use seems potentially dangerous - encouraging people to hurry unnecessarily down the stairs to the platforms. The only justifications I can really see for its use (neither of which really applies at Parkway) are 1) on a purely “arrivals” board and 2) where a train has a long layover but can already be boarded.

It ultimately depends on exactly where the berth and TD trigger is. This can of course vary.

 

[65477]

Just seen this thread on a train from Sheringham to Norwich. Real train times told me that my train was at the platform while simultaneously telling me the incoming service was three minutes away.

 

[duffield]

Just seen this thread on a train from Sheringham to Norwich. Real train times told me that my train was at the platform while simultaneously telling me the incoming service was three minutes away.

Given how much stuff is broken already in this country, it's hardly surprising we've now gone and broken the space-time continuum as well.

 

[Harratt4]

Yeah, my apologies, I missed out the most important part of that point; about the signal distance away from the platform.

But thanks for simplifying it down. It’s always nice to confirm what I thought!

A good example of this is on the thameslink platforms at St Pancras. Often the next departure will show as "arrived" whilst the current one is still in the platform with its doors open!

 

[JAWZ]

@JAWZ

Hello

What is you app please ?

Is it available on Android ?

Thank you

Dave

Ah no, not yet - it's only on iOS at the moment. Android's in the pipeline though - there's a form on the website (https://www.trainmapper.co.uk) you can sign up for notifications if you want a notification when Android is launched.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Aug 2025 ==

For all the complaints about rail information, I find stationary digital bus information to be much more of a fiction, if it is even provided.

LOL, in Bath we call them "bus minutes"*... the various tracking apps (even FB's own) and the electronic bus stops all show different things, and none of them reflects reality.

* as in "The X39 is due in 1 minute". 1 bus minute == anywhere between 10 minutes ago and never.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Unfortunately "no data" (i.e no train movement) will ultimately lead to "delayed" after a certain period of time for pretty much all CIS providers. Which is broadly the right way to do it

Another issue on busy routes is that trains are shown in the order they are expected (ie taking account of any delay) unless they are lost to the system, in which case they are shown in the order they were due (in the correct - scheduled- sense of the word). This leads to nonsenses that the board does not show the next three, much delayed, trains that are approaching, but the next three trains that would be approaching if everything was running to time, but which have not actually left the terminus yet. At Raynes Park, for example, it will show trains that have not yet left Waterloo as trains 2 and 3, even though there are several other trains that have already left Waterloo ahead of them. As a train approaches, it suddenly flips into existence, pushing "delayed" trains 1 and 2 into positions 2 and 3. This constant juggling of which are actually the next three trains frequently results in people getting on the wrong one.

 

[Welshguy1048]

Ah no, not yet - it's only on iOS at the moment. Android's in the pipeline though - there's a form on the website (https://www.trainmapper.co.uk) you can sign up for notifications if you want a notification when Android is launched.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Aug 2025 ==


LOL, in Bath we call them "bus minutes"*... the various tracking apps (even FB's own) and the electronic bus stops all show different things, and none of them reflects reality.

* as in "The X39 is due in 1 minute". 1 bus minute == anywhere between 10 minutes ago and never.

@JAWZ

Thank you

Dave

 

[david1212]

.... And anyone who uses the bus tracker app will know how flakey that can be in rural areas. I am not convinced that it is much better than the live rail departure boards.

Two years ago I was in Totnes wanting the Tally Ho! 164 service to Kingsbridge at 12:00. The displays showed this as due in (something like) 37 minutes and not reducing then just after 12:00 disappeared from the screen with the next bus in 55 minutes i.e. the timetabled 13:00 departure. I was pondering what to do when the bus appeared. I can only presume this bus dropped off the tracking soon after leaving Kingbridge and was not picked up once in Totnes.

I can't recall if later the same day or another day again I was in Totnes wanting the bus timetabled around 17:30 to Paignton. It did not appear on the screen at all. If cancelled showing this would have been helpful. When about 10 minutes after the due time the bus has not appeared several waiting passengers some of whom were clearly by their uniforms local workers walked off returning 5 mins before the arrival of next bus that was on the screen.

 

[py_megapixel]

As I mentioned above buses have their own version of the same confusing nonsense, just showing the timetabled time if a bus isn't tracking rather than stating "not tracking, timetabled at xx:xx" which would be clearer.

Transport for Greater Manchester does actually do something like this:

Image is a screenshot of the TfGM app, showing a 192 bus to Manchester at "20:38 (timetabled)"
Clicking on that then shows a warning message:

Image is another screenshot of the same app, with a warning message that reads "Live map tracking is unavailable"

Perhaps it could be a bit clearer about the actual important conclusion - that the absence of tracking means the arrival time may be inaccurate - but it's an awful lot better than most systems which don't tell you at all.

 

[Parham Wood]

How did we manage in the past with no information screens!!! Well nearly all stations had staff that would advise passengers about delays. These days we get used to automatic information and by and large it works fairly well. It is nevertheless a pity that there are anomalies, too many by the sound of it. It is a shame there is no body capable of holding the responsible companies to account and asking what lessons have been learnt from each situation. OK some may not be easy fixes or fixable at all until new signalling etc is installed but having systems display a train being late simply because there is no information is not on.

I was guilty once of taking delay information at face value but this was for a late evening flight returning from Brussels to Heathrow. It was shown as delayed for about four hours so we took a taxi to the city centre for a decent meal and returned well in time for the delayed departure only to find it not on the screens and had left some time before. Fortunately there was a 1:30ish flight (unadvertised) we found out, so a few hours wait for this in a completely shut airport. Turns out we were the only passengers (it was a balancing return flight mainly for cargo and took passengers for those in the know). Fastest flight between the two cities I've had seems like it went in a straight line and a very short take off.

Bus information round here is hit and miss at times which seems on a par with others. Buses can disappear, then some sort of replacement comes along with a minutes notice. It is probably better now as we are not the end of a route when all sorts of cancellations and reinstatements due to late running would happen at short notice. But by and large it is a lot better than nothing.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

I haven't read all the comments on this thread but honestly, whinging about a company keeping to its timetable, rather than the whims of a third party app seems daft in the extreme. The op has only himself to blame.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I haven't read all the comments on this thread but honestly, whinging about a company keeping to its timetable, rather than the whims of a third party app seems daft in the extreme. The op has only himself to blame.

They never specified a 3rd party app, saying "delayed" is a thing only the Darwin data does (RTT doesn't), which as one data stream is as close to first party as you can get, even if the app itself isn't owned by the railway, the data comes straight from them.

 

[800001]

I haven't read all the comments on this thread but honestly, whinging about a company keeping to its timetable, rather than the whims of a third party app seems daft in the extreme. The op has only himself to blame.

Exactly. We all know delays can improve. Be at the station on time for the train of your choosing, especially if it is the last one of the night!

 

[Krokodil]

I've just remembered being in Graz and waiting for a heavily-delayed train to Maribor (we're talking a couple of hours' delay). So I went to a nearby Italian restaurant for my dinner, keeping an eye on the train's progress with an app (possibly DB Navigator). At some point, the tracking must have glitched and showed the train as having departed on time and I nearly defecated myself. Eventually it resumed the serious delay and I still got to Maribor with plenty of time for my overnight bus (which was a story in its own right). Still, I needn't have worried because I was actually a day early for my photography tour of the steam locos in Bosnia having messed up the dates.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Saw this happen at New St tonight. The 2203 to Reading somehow stopped registering on departure from Wolves (showing Delayed) but then reappeared at New St only a couple of minutes late.

 

[Krokodil]

Saw this happen at New St tonight. The 2203 to Reading somehow stopped registering on departure from Wolves (showing Delayed) but then reappeared at New St only a couple of minutes late.

Must've been diverted via Bescot. So it never actually passed any of the reporting points. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C23831/2025-08-19/detailed#allox_id=0

 

[The exile]

LOL, in Bath we call them "bus minutes"*... the various tracking apps (even FB's own) and the electronic bus stops all show different things, and none of them reflects reality.

* as in "The X39 is due in 1 minute". 1 bus minute == anywhere between 10 minutes ago and never.

The dreaded “3 minutes” - somehow those 60 seconds between 3 and 2 seem to be remarkably elastic. Mind you (also Bath specific) they seem to have got better of late.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Had the opposite problem waiting for the Innsbruck sleeper at Cologne on two separate occasions. For three hours it was showing on the screens as arriving in twenty minutes time - which we later ascertained meant it hadn't left Dortmund (the origin station, twenty minutes away) - leaving us very cold and hungry as we didn't dare leave the station. It eventually rolled in just after midnight.

 

[saismee]

Just seen this thread on a train from Sheringham to Norwich. Real train times told me that my train was at the platform while simultaneously telling me the incoming service was three minutes away.

It's likely that the inbound service was under a different headcode and the next service was then manually input in the second berth of the station. It happens all the time, especially on quick turnarounds. Ipswich to Felixstowe departures can appear while the inbound service is 3-4 signal blocks away because the route is set anyway. I imagine the signaller does it whenever they have a few free minutes at a reasonable time before departure.