Improving the Severn Beach Line.

[The exile]

Notably the German S-Bahns are largely on dedicated pairs of tracks.

Proper ones are, anyway!

 

[Mgameing123]

This is highly debatable. A single freight train presenting at the wrong time can destroy the overground service and everything has to be stepped up to match. We should have completely independent freight tracks or even a london ring railway around the M25 to keep metro traffic on it's own set of tracks. Notably the German S-Bahns are largely on dedicated pairs of tracks.

True but the fact they manage to get a mix between frequent commuter trains and freight trains to work is amazing.

 

[Pat31]

True but the fact they manage to get a mix between frequent commuter trains and freight trains to work is amazing.

I think it’s tough to compare these lines to Bristol. Temple meads has to handle an awful lot of mixed distance traffic. A lot of the suburban lines around london have full seperation between fast and slow lines. In Bristol the slow lines to filton still have to handle regional traffic between cardiff and the south. This makes getting 4tph quite tight when you factor in switches around TM as well. Add to that the line to Yate through parkway has to cross the SW mainline and the GW main and weston line are only double track and have to share with intercity trains and freight.

 

[Russel]

I was in Bristol on Saturday so decided to take a ride on the Severn Beach line from Temple Meads to Avonmouth, on the way back I decided to get off at Portway Park and Ride to check the new station out, I decided to get the bus back into Bristol from there as it goes under the Clifton Suspension bridge and drops you off right in the city centre...

This raises one question from me, regarding Portway P&R, what was the point?

The buses are quicker, more frequent and drop off in the centre of Bristol rather than Temple Meads which is a good 10 minute walk from the centre... unless I've missed the point, this station seems like a huge waste of money that could have been used on something else?

 

[HST43257]

I was in Bristol on Saturday so decided to take a ride on the Severn Beach line from Temple Meads to Avonmouth, on the way back I decided to get off at Portway Park and Ride to check the new station out, I decided to get the bus back into Bristol from there as it goes under the Clifton Suspension bridge and drops you off right in the city centre...

This raises one question from me, regarding Portway P&R, what was the point?

The buses are quicker, more frequent and drop off in the centre of Bristol rather than Temple Meads which is a good 10 minute walk from the centre... unless I've missed the point, this station seems like a huge waste of money that could have been used on something else?

Would the buses be quicker at peak time?

 

[cjw714]

I was in Bristol on Saturday so decided to take a ride on the Severn Beach line from Temple Meads to Avonmouth, on the way back I decided to get off at Portway Park and Ride to check the new station out, I decided to get the bus back into Bristol from there as it goes under the Clifton Suspension bridge and drops you off right in the city centre...

This raises one question from me, regarding Portway P&R, what was the point?

The buses are quicker, more frequent and drop off in the centre of Bristol rather than Temple Meads which is a good 10 minute walk from the centre... unless I've missed the point, this station seems like a huge waste of money that could have been used on something else?

Not everyone wants to go to the centre of Bristol. Some might want to change trains at Temple Meads and others might be travelling to some of the newly developed areas around the station.

 

[The exile]

Not everyone wants to go to the centre of Bristol. Some might want to change trains at Temple Meads and others might be travelling to some of the newly developed areas around the station.

The park and ride buses are not much good for Clifton. Try parking there….

 

[Russel]

The park and ride buses are not much good for Clifton. Try parking there….

To be fair, neither is the train, I did consider getting off at Clifton Down to get some lunch in Clifton and get the bus back into Bristol, but the centre of Clifton was a 20ish minute walk, according to Google Maps.

 

[Snow1964]

I was in Bristol on Saturday so decided to take a ride on the Severn Beach line from Temple Meads to Avonmouth, on the way back I decided to get off at Portway Park and Ride to check the new station out, I decided to get the bus back into Bristol from there as it goes under the Clifton Suspension bridge and drops you off right in the city centre...

This raises one question from me, regarding Portway P&R, what was the point?

The recent annual rail usage stats by station, only covered part year but seems to be reasonable usage.

Actually many of the stations on the line have considerably more passengers than just before covid. It seems to be one of the lines having a post covid boom (even with 34 year old diesel trains, and no improvement to timetable compared to 5 years ago)

 

[simonw]

To be fair, neither is the train, I did consider getting off at Clifton Down to get some lunch in Clifton and get the bus back into Bristol, but the centre of Clifton was a 20ish minute walk, according to Google Maps.

Yes, Clifton and Clifton Down are two different areas, but Clifton Down would have offered you many places to take lunch.

 

[The exile]

Yes, Clifton and Clifton Down are two different areas, but Clifton Down would have offered you many places to take lunch.

Well, strictly speaking, they’re both “Clifton”. The bit you were aiming did Clifton Village. I was referring to the Whiteladies Road / University area so should have been clearer. That 20 minutes’ walk is still a lot more easy on the legs than slogging up the hill from the Centre / Temple Meads.

 

[simonw]

Well, strictly speaking, they’re both “Clifton”. The bit you were aiming did Clifton Village. I was referring to the Whiteladies Road / University area so should have been clearer. That 20 minutes’ walk is still a lot more easy on the legs than slogging up the hill from the Centre / Temple Meads.

I wasn't aiming for anywhere, it's decades since I travelled on the line, even if my interest in railways was kick started by a visit to Sea Mills station in the 1960s

 

[Meerkat]

Are all the Avonmouth docks needed? Just that southern one looks like dockland development opportunity right near Avonmouth station......
Is there/could there be much inbound traffic? Looks to be a fair amount of employment near to St Andrews station (though it could do with being made a tad more attractive!*), and maybe a new station around the Central Avenue area (though the existing big warehouses are a good walk away).
Is Severn Beach too low lying for a load of new housing? A river view with a link to all the work around Temple Meads could be popular.

*Are there any plans for the old coal loading loops; are they used for anything at the moment? Seems like a decent location for an intermodal depot for all the industry around there, and if not then swap the St Andrews Road platform to be on the convenient side.

 

[Cowley]

Thread reopened for @overthere 2 to add to.

 

[JKF]

The Harbour, Broadmead Shopping, King Street/Old Town and St Nick's Market are all a 15 minute walk away up some fairly busy roads.

It’s a nice walk from Temple Meads side entrance along the canal to Castle Park, only a short bit where you have to cross a couple of quiet roads and through the pedestrian bit to the new wonky bridge (by the Left Handed Giant bar). Even the road route is much nicer than it used to be.

True, although the practicalities of lowering the track through the platform would need looking at, especially if you were to have a gradient along the length of the platform so the step was higher at one end than the other! You're absolutely right, the steps at the 5 stations up to and including Clifton Down are very big

The gap between the platforms and tunnel mouth at Clifton Down isn’t that short, about 220m from a quick measure on Google Earth. If the line remains single through what was a double track arched tunnel then it probably has sufficient clearance for OLE. Montpelier is closer, and I think there have been some proposals for the line to be doubled to that station from the junction to improve capacity.

Someone mentioned running via Henbury at the start of the thread, this isn’t currently on the cards, and if you look at the map it’s a bit of a long way round to Avonmouth. If we had a big pot of money I’d extend from Henbury station towards Lawrence Weston running roughly parallel to the motorway, there is a strip of fairly marginal land between this and the built-up area. Terminating here would bring the line into a fairly dense built-up area that is also quite deprived, so would be potentially regenerative. I can’t however get my crayons to figure out getting back onto the Severn Beach line at Portway or Shirehampton from here without bridges, tunnels and demolition!

 

[overthere 2]

Are all the Avonmouth docks needed? Just that southern one looks like dockland development opportunity right near Avonmouth station......
Is there/could there be much inbound traffic? Looks to be a fair amount of employment near to St Andrews station (though it could do with being made a tad more attractive!*), and maybe a new station around the Central Avenue area (though the existing big warehouses are a good walk away).
Is Severn Beach too low lying for a load of new housing? A river view with a link to all the work around Temple Meads could be popular.

*Are there any plans for the old coal loading loops; are they used for anything at the moment? Seems like a decent location for an intermodal depot for all the industry around there, and if not then swap the St Andrews Road platform to be on the convenient side.

Story here about a possible freight terminal:


Study for potential South West freight terminal under way | Rail freight

Study for potential South West freight terminal under way​

• By David Stubbings
• |
• 22 July 2025
• News

A feasibility study for a potential freight terminal in the Avonmouth area is under way.
The Western Gateway Sub-national Transport Body is working with Peninsula Transport, with the support of local authorities, to establish an intermodal terminal in the South West to help drive modal shift.




Report here : https://westerngatewaystb.org.uk/wp...mouth-Rail-Freight-Feasibility-Study-v1.1.pdf

This feasibility study, commissioned by Western Gateway and undertaken by Polaris Consultancy
Group, has assessed the potential for developing a Rail Freight Terminal (RFT) at Avonmouth. The
study has considered market demand, technical and environmental feasibility, stakeholder views,
financial and economic viability and alignment with regional and national freight policies. The
conclusions demonstrate that Avonmouth is well positioned to host a terminal of strategic
significance. The success of such a scheme will depend on carefully navigating operational
constraints, aligning with stakeholder priorities and securing both public and private investment.

For any body who is interested in shunting maneuvres then look at pages 39 - 43.

For those wanting a half hourly passenger service to/from Severn Beach this would eliminate any chance of daytime freight paths without investment in re-signalling and, probably, double tracking (page 45) which any other country would happily do but this being the UK it is all about spending as little as possible even though it is obvious what a benefit it would be.

However I do like the idea of new curve from the Hallen Marsh Branch northwards to the Severn Beach Branch as not only would it make operations easier and more flexible but also it would hopefully spur on the no brainer of upgrading the full Henbury loop to passenger services: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/north-filton-brabazon.287517/page-2 then you could run trains between Temple Meads or Portishead along the Severn Beach line, to Severn Beach then reverse, call at Bristol arena then terminate at Bristol Parkway which would be particularly handy when you have got people leaving an event altogether and you want to get them away as quick as possible and not trying to stuff them on a 2/3 car terminating unit.

 

[The Planner]

So what are you suggesting? A third party business wants to build a freight terminal and someone else coughs up for the upgrades to facilitate it?

 

[contrex]

An underground in Bristol would be incredibly awkward to build in Bristol given the topography of the wider city making station depth an issue and water conditions in the city centre.

I agree, but it didn't stop Valentine Walker's lad putting it forward.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Oct 2025 ==

Yes, Clifton and Clifton Down are two different areas, but Clifton Down would have offered you many places to take lunch.

Cotham Hill is chocker with restaurants and cafés these days, as well as the adjacent parts of Whiteladies Road.

 

[JKF]

Story here about a possible freight terminal:


Study for potential South West freight terminal under way | Rail freight

Study for potential South West freight terminal under way​

• By David Stubbings
• |
• 22 July 2025
• News

A feasibility study for a potential freight terminal in the Avonmouth area is under way.
The Western Gateway Sub-national Transport Body is working with Peninsula Transport, with the support of local authorities, to establish an intermodal terminal in the South West to help drive modal shift.

There are plans for a deep water container port at Avonmouth, via a quayside adjacent to the Severn Estuary. These have been around for a long time, with proposals put forward in 2005, approved in 2010 but delayed due to difficulties raising the necessary investment. They are currently planning a smaller investment scheme to serve the offshore wind industry which was announced last year. I suppose this could be served by this development, although it sounds like it will be aimed at inbound freight at the moment.

Some details on the history of the deepwater container project in this article:

Investment to extend Bristol Port delayed for decade - Transport & Logistics Magazine

The £600 million investment to extend Bristol Port by building a deep sea container terminal has been delayed again – potentially up until 2030. First Corporate Shipping, which owns Avonmouth and Royal Portbury Docks has this week applied for a ten-year extension to its permissions to build the...

tandlonline.com

There would be some sense in having a deep water terminal at Avonmouth as it would be nearer for container ships arriving from the Atlantic than east coast ports, and would be a shorter route for onboard container movements to the West Midlands and north-west. Portbury dock used to have two enormous container cranes which dominated the skyline but they saw little use after construction as the container traffic never developed, these were relocated to another port a couple of decades ago.

An article on the proposed Bristol Wind Terminal (with an illustration of the proposal):

Bristol Wind Terminal

The Bristol Port Company (BPC) has confirmed its plans for the development of the Bristol Wind Terminal (BWT) at Avonmouth Docks, Bristol. BWT will provide essential new port infrastructure to support the production, marshalling, integration and deployment of floating offshore wind turbine units...

www.multimodal.org.uk

I can’t see the wind terminal generating rail traffic due to the size of the components required for offshore turbines.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

There are plans for a deep water container port at Avonmouth, via a quayside adjacent to the Severn Estuary. These have been around for a long time, with proposals put forward in 2005, approved in 2010 but delayed due to difficulties raising the necessary investment. They are currently planning a smaller investment scheme to serve the offshore wind industry which was announced last year. I suppose this could be served by this development, although it sounds like it will be aimed at inbound freight at the moment.

Some details on the history of the deepwater container project in this article:

Investment to extend Bristol Port delayed for decade - Transport & Logistics Magazine

The £600 million investment to extend Bristol Port by building a deep sea container terminal has been delayed again – potentially up until 2030. First Corporate Shipping, which owns Avonmouth and Royal Portbury Docks has this week applied for a ten-year extension to its permissions to build the...

tandlonline.com

There would be some sense in having a deep water terminal at Avonmouth as it would be nearer for container ships arriving from the Atlantic than east coast ports, and would be a shorter route for onboard container movements to the West Midlands and north-west. Portbury dock used to have two enormous container cranes which dominated the skyline but they saw little use after construction as the container traffic never developed, these were relocated to another port a couple of decades ago.

An article on the proposed Bristol Wind Terminal (with an illustration of the proposal):

Bristol Wind Terminal

The Bristol Port Company (BPC) has confirmed its plans for the development of the Bristol Wind Terminal (BWT) at Avonmouth Docks, Bristol. BWT will provide essential new port infrastructure to support the production, marshalling, integration and deployment of floating offshore wind turbine units...

www.multimodal.org.uk

I can’t see the wind terminal generating rail traffic due to the size of the components required for offshore turbines.

There seems to be a lack of central direction / co-ordination going on here. Port Talbot and Miford Haven have both been given 'freeport' status for very similar wind-turbine related plans. Surely there can't be a need for all three?

 

[overthere 2]

So what are you suggesting? A third party business wants to build a freight terminal and someone else coughs up for the upgrades to facilitate it?

If you are suggesting the "someone else" could possibly be the government in other words "us" the taxpayer then YES.

For the following reasons:

1. You just have to listen to the traffic reports or look in the papers (local and national) to hear and see about lorries that have crashed in to bridges, peoples homes, got stuck down narrow lanes or caused countless other incidents and even when they are just being normal they are wrecking the roads with there weight and causing danger to pedestrians/cyclists and everyone with their noise.
2. When ever a lorry crashes in to another lorry or a car then then for people not too be killed is sadly very rear with all the issues that brings for loved ones and society in general
3. If this works then it could spread across the country and we could to a certain extent go back to the early days of road transport where the lorry would carry a load from the factory/warehouse to the station, the train would then carry it across the country then another lorry would, carry it to a shop/warehouse/someone's home or wherever.

Also I have said before how stupid it is to upgrade the line between Filton and Henbury and Leave the rest as freight only. So if this takes off and they run extra trains and common sense prevails that you need extra/longer trains (XCross country Manchester - Bristol Temple Meads for example) to serve the arena when events are on and not just shut the station like Coventry arena then to thread that lot all together with two dead end stations is going to be a nightmare so it might just tip the balance to spend a little bit more and upgrade the lot.

 

[The Planner]

If you are suggesting the "someone else" could possibly be the government in other words "us" the taxpayer then YES.

For the following reasons:

1. You just have to listen to the traffic reports or look in the papers (local and national) to hear and see about lorries that have crashed in to bridges, peoples homes, got stuck down narrow lanes or caused countless other incidents and even when they are just being normal they are wrecking the roads with there weight and causing danger to pedestrians/cyclists and everyone with their noise.
2. When ever a lorry crashes in to another lorry or a car then then for people not too be killed is sadly very rear with all the issues that brings for loved ones and society in general
3. If this works then it could spread across the country and we could to a certain extent go back to the early days of road transport where the lorry would carry a load from the factory/warehouse to the station, the train would then carry it across the country then another lorry would, carry it to a shop/warehouse/someone's home or wherever.

Also I have said before how stupid it is to upgrade the line between Filton and Henbury and Leave the rest as freight only. So if this takes off and they run extra trains and common sense prevails that you need extra/longer trains (XCross country Manchester - Bristol Temple Meads for example) to serve the arena when events are on and not just shut the station like Coventry arena then to thread that lot all together with two dead end stations is going to be a nightmare so it might just tip the balance to spend a little bit more and upgrade the lot.

Good luck with that.