Improving Liverpool Central's utility from Lime Street?

[Parjon]

The Merseyrail loop and link were always meant to work together, but coming off a train at Lime Street and needing to get the Northern Line it really doesn't feel it. Options:

• Walk to Central. Not great. Crossing several roads. If it's raining, cold, etc.
• Wirral Line. Not great. Descend, get a train (great), arrive at Central up two sets of escalators, across the concourse, down another (not great, may as well have walked given the time it's all taken).

As I was stood on the Northern Line platform having just missed a train, I was gazing at the Wirral Line sign above the escalator straight down that no one seems to use.

Am I missing something, or could a very simple solution to this connectivity issue be to just get this single escalator between the Central platforms going in the opposite direction??

Fast Northern Line to Wirral Line connections are already available at Moorfields.

 

[jamesst]

The Merseyrail loop and link were always meant to work together, but coming off a train at Lime Street and needing to get the Northern Line it really doesn't feel it. Options:

• Walk to Central. Not great. Crossing several roads. If it's raining, cold, etc.
• Wirral Line. Not great. Descend, get a train (great), arrive at Central up two sets of escalators, across the concourse, down another (not great, may as well have walked given the time it's all taken).

As I was stood on the Northern Line platform having just missed a train, I was gazing at the Wirral Line sign above the escalator straight down that no one seems to use.

Am I missing something, or could a very simple solution to this connectivity issue be to just get this single escalator between the Central platforms going in the opposite direction??

Fast Northern Line to Wirral Line connections are already available at Moorfields.

So in reality you're asking connections from Liverpool Lime Street mainline to the Northern Line.
The down escalator at Liverpool Central from Northern to Wirral is actually very well used, particularly in the peaks.
There may be some potential for change of direction off peak but that puts in an added complication with people not knowing which direction it will be when.
Ironically if an evacuation is needed from the Wirral line from a method other than by train the escalators direction would be reversed and it used as an escape route.

 

[yorksrob]

I profess an interest as I have interchanged between the two on occasions and agree that crossing the main road is a rigmarole.

Given that Lime Street station is already at quite a higher level than the road, I wonder whether a raised walkway over it in the direction of Central would be possible

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I always walk from Lime St to Central, it's faster, but I agree it's not ideal in bad weather.
Changing at Liverpool South Parkway is useful if you are coming in that way (and Avanti will be also stopping there in a year or so).
Changing at Moorfields is OK but I always seem to face a 13-minute wait for a train when I do.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Merseyrail loop and link were always meant to work together, but coming off a train at Lime Street and needing to get the Northern Line it really doesn't feel it. Options:

• Walk to Central. Not great. Crossing several roads. If it's raining, cold, etc.
• Wirral Line. Not great. Descend, get a train (great), arrive at Central up two sets of escalators, across the concourse, down another (not great, may as well have walked given the time it's all taken).

As I was stood on the Northern Line platform having just missed a train, I was gazing at the Wirral Line sign above the escalator straight down that no one seems to use.

Am I missing something, or could a very simple solution to this connectivity issue be to just get this single escalator between the Central platforms going in the opposite direction??

Fast Northern Line to Wirral Line connections are already available at Moorfields.

Ps. No offence, but only replies from people with an actual direct user interest in this please.

Almost everybody walks between Central and Lime St unless it's absolutely throwing it down. I have it down to taking about 7 minutes including using the loos at Central. (The fast from Manchester used to arrive at xx00 and I used to quite happily make the xx10 Ormskirk from Central without running, but if it was late and xx03 or later I might as well dawdle). It's not all that much further than Manchester Piccadilly main station to P13/14, though I accept it's a bit miserable in the rain and might be intimidating for some at night (though the bleakness of the underground platforms probably is too). It's a lot closer than St Pancras to Euston which plenty of people walk.

If doing it by rail, the trick is to use the lift at both Lime St and Central - if you don't do both, it's slower than walking. I do see the point over that escalator, though. Depends if more people go Northern-Wirral at Central or connect to Lime St. I'm not sure which way that would be.

The connection from Northern to Wirral at Moorfields is not "fast" because it goes via the Loop first.

 

[MikeWM]

It is rather easier now that they've (finally!) finished the road changes on Lime Street, so you no longer need to spend ages trying to cross a very wide and busy road.

Unless the weather was truly appalling, I can't imagine doing anything other than walking between the two.

 

[LPJOHN]

They are building a new lift at Central station I believe. If you have been at Central station recently you will have seen areas blocked off by the “down” escalator on the Northern line platforms and on the concourse.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They are building a new lift at Central station I believe. If you have been at Central station recently you will have seen areas blocked off by the “down” escalator on the Northern line platforms and on the concourse.

I hope it still connects all three levels - if not, that'll be a downgrade. I can see why they'd want to move it, though, to save people having to trek to it - it's a fairly long way out and used to require going outside!

 

[LPJOHN]

I was told they are keeping both lifts. I assume the new lift will also serve the Wirral line, but I don’t actually know.

 

[507020]

As I was stood on the Northern Line platform having just missed a train, I was gazing at the Wirral Line sign above the escalator straight down that no one seems to use.

Am I missing something, or could a very simple solution to this connectivity issue be to just get this single escalator between the Central platforms going in the opposite direction??

Yes. That escalator certainly runs in the wrong direction and needs to go up not down.

It is a massive and unnecessary inconvenience for passengers arriving at Lime Street and trying to reach Northern Line destinations. Note that Wirral Line passengers have a direct service and don’t need to change.

So in reality you're asking connections from Liverpool Lime Street mainline to the Northern Line.
The down escalator at Liverpool Central from Northern to Wirral is actually very well used, particularly in the peaks.

I have never actually seen anyone use it to go down. I have however seen passengers at the bottom arguing with staff demanding for the direction to be changed…

In the peak, when passengers are returning from work in Liverpool to the Wirral, why would anyone be using that escalator to go down from the Northern line platform?

 

[8A Rail]

It is rather easier now that they've (finally!) finished the road changes on Lime Street, so you no longer need to spend ages trying to cross a very wide and busy road.

Unless the weather was truly appalling, I can't imagine doing anything other than walking between the two.

Spot on and there is only two roads to cross and both now can be crossed relatively easily and safely enough. Having a discussion on this subject is fine but the reality, nothing is going to change for the simple reason, it costs money that no one or organisation has initially. If they do have money, it will be spent on more important things.

 

[jamesst]

I was told they are keeping both lifts. I assume the new lift will also serve the Wirral line, but I don’t actually know.

The new lift will just serve the Northern line, the existing lift will serve both.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Spot on and there is only two roads to cross and both now can be crossed relatively easily and safely enough. Having a discussion on this subject is fine but the reality, nothing is going to change for the simple reason, it costs money that no one or organisation has initially. If they do have money, it will be spent on more important things.

With the walk being so short even if they did make that escalator change it'd still be quicker to walk unless you used the lift at Lime St and walked onto the platform just as a train arrived.

If you enter Lime St Low Level via the escalators, getting to Lime St Low Level platform almost takes as long as walking to Central!

 

[Parjon]

I profess an interest as I have interchanged between the two on occasions and agree that crossing the main road is a rigmarole.

Given that Lime Street station is already at quite a higher level than the road, I wonder whether a raised walkway over it in the direction of Central would be possible

I have heard talk of a large tunnel connector with travelators, but that kind of thing would be so expensive I can't imagine it ever happening.

Sounds like I'm not the only one who has thought about the direction of that escalator. Was thinking could be quite a cost effective solution.

Re the person talking about confusion over changes in direction - how about an illuminated electronic board above each end of the escalator?

When in Up mode, displays Northern Line in blue at the Wirral Line end, and red No Entry at the Northern Line end. Although I'm not convinced it ever needs to be in Down mode tbh, given Moorfields.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Nov 2022 ==

If you enter Lime St Low Level via the escalators, getting to Lime St Low Level platform almost takes as long as walking to Central!

I can do it in 90 seconds flat from the main concourse.

This thread isn't about how few streets it is, how short the walk is, or whether you are happy to walk.

 

[Skie]

Re the person talking about confusion over changes in direction - how about an illuminated electronic board above each end of the escalator?

When in Up mode, displays Northern Line in blue at the Wirral Line end, and red No Entry at the Northern Line end.

Or just take a leaf out of the TFL book and have directional signs that change based on time of day around the station.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This thread isn't about how few streets it is, how short the walk is, or whether you are happy to walk.

Well, it kind of is, because money won't be spent on improving a rail option nobody would use even were it free (and it usually is depending on the tickets involved).

 

[507020]

Well, it kind of is, because money won't be spent on improving a rail option nobody would use even were it free (and it usually is depending on the tickets involved).

It doesn’t cost money to reverse the direction of an existing escalator though.

 

[AGH]

Bearing in mind this has been the options since Central and Exchange first arrived in the City and the loop line only improved matters don't expect a change anytime soon although there is still the spur outside of central built with a view to connecting the city lines which gets raised periodically.

Until they filled in the Subway, a short cut through St John's and then Clayton Square used to mitigate road crossings and wet weather. The side entrance by Lewis's or dive through the basement were other good tricks. The latter maintained Mersey Railway cladding for many a year.

It is quicker walking, downhill and with the new road layout much easier.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

They are building a new lift at Central station I believe. If you have been at Central station recently you will have seen areas blocked off by the “down” escalator on the Northern line platforms and on the concourse.

They need a new one at Lime St too, to replace the existing comedy version.
I think the plated capacity is 8, but one bike or buggy and you're stuffed. Being deep, the cycle time is long too, if you have to wait for the next.
It also dumps you beyond the furthest end of the platform, where 3-car trains dare not go.
Presumably a lift direct from the platform centre would bring you up inside St George's Hall!
On the escalator route there's the anomaly that there is no down-escalator for the short lower section, only steps.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Presumably a lift direct from the platform centre would bring you up inside St George's Hall!

There is the exit there from the subway, so that wouldn't necessarily be an issue for people exiting the station as against people going to Lime St mainline.

 

[Parjon]

Well, it kind of is, because money won't be spent on improving a rail option nobody would use even were it free (and it usually is depending on the tickets involved).

I'll put up the £50 to get a man in to swap the sign around, and an extra £10 to cover the cost of sending someone with the key to change the direction of the escalator.

And I will use it. I'm not "nobody".