Improving connections between Orbirail and long-distance main lines.

[miklcct]

In the Wikipedia article of Orbirail:

An additional problem is poor interchange with many of the radial routes. The proposed route offers no interchange with the Great Western Main Line, Chiltern Main Line, the East Coast Main Line, the Great Eastern Main Line or the London, Tilbury and Southend line. Only local services on the West Coast Main Line stop at Willesden Junction. It has similarly poor interchange with many London Underground lines. Poor interchange options are a general problem with most of London's older railways, which were built by competing private companies in the 19th century before the need for a coherent and integrated transport network was understood.

In the real world, there are no easy interchanges to avoid Zone 1 between London Overground and the lines mentioned above, causing unncecssary Zone 1 journeys taken in the network.

Which interchanges can feasibility be built to reduce the pressure on London Terminals, or alternatively, what additional stations should long-distance train call at to facilitate journeys not crossing Central London?

Here are some ideas:
1. Will there be an Overground connection at Old Oak Common to North London Line or West London Line? Will all long-distance trains from Paddington call there?
2. Is it possible to rebuild Willesden Junction main line platform, and call all long distance trains there?
3. Is it possible to add platforms at West Hampstead for Chiltern Main Line, and call all trains there? Marylebone is a rubbish location for onward connection.
4. Is it possible to call all long distance Midland Main Line trains at West Hampstead Thameslink for Overground connection?
5. Is it possible to add a station above York Way on the North London Line, and connect it to both King's Cross and St Pancras terminals from the country end, such that a direct transfer can be made to Hackney?

(Stratford, Clapham Junction and London Bridge are good interchange for orbital journeys)

 

[NSE]

To my knowledge:
1. No to London Overground, and I don’t about GWR. But I believe most will, if not all.
2. Not without lots of expense. Willesden Junction is a bit of a rabbit warren and it won’t be cheap to get all the necessary footbridges in to facilitate transfers. Personally, I don’t think the demand would be there.
3. Again, not without big expense. The Chiltern Mainline is hemmed in by the tube on one side and buildings on the other. It’s really knackered for space.
4. I really don’t think the demand is there. I guess in theory, but it would add to the timetable. I’d say only the Corby ones would have some merit to it. Thameslink don’t even stop all their trains there, so I can’t see why EMR would want to.
5. I don’t know, but that sounds like the area where there are a lot of railway chords connecting the North London Line to both the MML and ECML and where HS1 & Thameslink tunnels dive/resurface. I don’t know if there would be the space. Could be totally wrong, though.

 

[mangyiscute]

In my eyes a much better project would be to build an interchange with either the Piccadilly or one of the northern line branches and the overground - this would make access so certain London terminals easier and also improve a lot of local journeys which I imagine are a far greater proportion of the total journeys on this line.
I do hope they have an overground and central line stop at old oak common - for a station that will potentially be the largest in the country I would be stopping as many lines there as possible.

 

[The Planner]

If Orbirail is being designed to get people around London, instead of to/from it, then chances are it won't even be a factor and will make it unaffordable.

 

[stuu]

In the Wikipedia article of Orbirail:


In the real world, there are no easy interchanges to avoid Zone 1 between London Overground and the lines mentioned above, causing unncecssary Zone 1 journeys taken in the network.

Which interchanges can feasibility be built to reduce the pressure on London Terminals, or alternatively, what additional stations should long-distance train call at to facilitate journeys not crossing Central London?

Here are some ideas:
1. Will there be an Overground connection at Old Oak Common to North London Line or West London Line? Will all long-distance trains from Paddington call there?
2. Is it possible to rebuild Willesden Junction main line platform, and call all long distance trains there?
3. Is it possible to add platforms at West Hampstead for Chiltern Main Line, and call all trains there? Marylebone is a rubbish location for onward connection.
4. Is it possible to call all long distance Midland Main Line trains at West Hampstead Thameslink for Overground connection?
5. Is it possible to add a station above York Way on the North London Line, and connect it to both King's Cross and St Pancras terminals from the country end, such that a direct transfer can be made to Hackney?

(Stratford, Clapham Junction and London Bridge are good interchange for orbital journeys)

1. The current plan, if that is the correct word as there's no money yet, is for a station on the NLL west of OOC, near where it crosses the Central line. So there will be a station but it will be something like 600m mid platform to mid platform

5. York Way is a very long long way from Kings Cross, over 1km in a straight line. That's not an interchange. No one is going to walk for 15 minutes when they can go one stop on the Victoria Line

I do think there is some merit in the general idea of improving interchanges and orbital travel more generally. But whether there is any capacity on the NLL to actually do it is an important question. Perhaps we need to copy Paris and build a proper orbital metro?