IAS/IRCAS Greater Anglia charge

[Emptyland]

Hello. This is my first time posting so forgive me if I do anything wrong!

Basically I am looking for advice in regards to a appeal that got denied by IRCAS.

The story

Roughly a month ago I boarded a train, of which the station didn't have a ticket machine, but no worries, you can pay either cash or card on greater anglia. When It came to paying the conductors chip and pin wouldn't work. Don't know if it was with my card or what but it simply didn't work. Next and only stop was my destination, I said I will just pay there. Nope. Instead he gave me a ticket fine and said I had to call up some number and pay for it.

Why should I pay for it? It wasn't my fault. So I forgot about it for a while. Twenty one days later I receive a letter telling me it was my final notice to pay the charge of £75 (was originally £5) or I could potentially be summoned to court or have debt collectors come round my house.

After receiving the letter I of course appealed. Explaining that it is not my problem if Greater Anglia's equipment works or not. Five days later (today) I receive an email saying I still have to pay the fine for two reasons;

One;
"Appeals must be submitted and received within IAS no later than 21 days from the date of issue. Clear instruction on appeal submission, including the timescales involved, are detailed on the Unpaid Fare Notice issued by Greater Anglia."

Two;
"Your appeal arrived at this office after the deadline. Having viewed this submission fully, there are no mitigating circumstances for consideration and the right to appeal has been forfeited."

Surly there are mitigating circumstances. Their equipment did not work! Meaning it was not my fault I couldn't pay. Meaning I shouldn't have got a ticket in the first place. 21 days appeal or not?

My questions to you guys

I mean seriously, what are my options? Am I not correct in thinking I shouldn't have got a fine due to their equipment not working? Making the whole process invalid.

How much further can I take it? I mean there saying this is it. Pay the fine or it "may result in Greater Anglia taking further action to recover the outstanding debt." Is there no one else I can talk to?

I know they have a direct number but it is damn hard to get hold of them. Is it worth calling them up? What could I say?

If anyone can give me some advice it would be much appreciated. Thank you so much.

 

[najaB]

Am I not correct in thinking I shouldn't have got a fine due to their equipment not working? Making the whole process invalid.

You are correct that you shouldn't get a fine in that situation, and you didn't as a fine can only be imposed by the courts. What you received - an Unpaid Fare Notice - is exactly that. It's a way for the TOC to recover the cost of the fare you weren't able to pay at the time. If you had paid it, then that would've been the end of the story (if you felt aggrieved then you could have appealed it after payment).

Your mistake was not paying it.

By not paying it in time, you've opened yourself up to a world of hurt. At the very least you will have to pay the original amount, plus debt-collection fees and costs.

If anyone can give me some advice it would be much appreciated. Thank you so much.

At this stage, I don't know that there is much you can do other than pay the amount they are requesting. I hope that other members of the forum have some suggestions that would be less of a sting to your pocketbook, but I do not.

 

[anglia.rail]

Passenger Focus may be able to help? They're an independent watch dog who would deal with your complaint & hopefully resolve the situation. http://www.passengerfocus.org.uk/help/rail-complaints
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There's also the Office of Rail Regulation:
http://orr.gov.uk/about-orr/contact-us/complaints

 

[yorkie]

Were you asked to pay a Penalty Fare? (sometimes referred to - and understandably thought of as - a "fine", though it technically isn't)

But, most importantly: have you actually paid the fare due? If not, I urge you to pay the fare you would have paid ASAP.

Edit: I now realise that the term "fine" in this case appears to refer to fees for late payment because you forgot to send payment. I do not believe you have valid grounds for not paying these fees, and it appears the fare itself is not due, so it could escalate into a serious matter. I advise paying.

 

[najaB]

Were you asked to pay a Penalty Fare? (sometimes referred to - and understandably thought of as - a "fine", though it technically isn't)

I believe that the OP stated he received an unpaid fare notice, also wouldn't a PF have been at least £20 rather than £5?

 

[yorkie]

If all that was originally requested was the £5 fare, and the rest is simply admin fees for late paying, then I don't think there is a case here?!

 

[najaB]

If all that was originally requested was the £5 fare, and the rest is simply admin fees for late paying, then I don't think there is a case here?!

That's certainly the way I read it.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

If your question was simply and only about a surcharge which you recieved and which felt was unjust, then I would have to tell you that the lack of success between your bank and the Company's bank in making a payment is no more the Company's 'fault' than yours - it is the passenger's responsibility to pay for a ticket and where a 'card' is declined then another form of payment must be made. But then I'd add that many Companies can be sympathetic in these situations especially where there is a good track record of regular payment,

But, it seems to me that your question relates to a fare for travel which you have still not paid, despite requests and reminders. I regret to have to tell you that the unpaid fare and acruing admin charges are quite rightly due for payment and yes, if you continue to leave it unpaid, then you are likely to find that the matter continues to escalate. Sorry that's not what you'll have wanted to read.

 

[bb21]

Why should I pay for it?

You tell me why you should not pay it? You used a service, could not pay the fare and were given an opportunity to pay it later. Why do you think you should be entitled to use the service for free?

One;
"Appeals must be submitted and received within IAS no later than 21 days from the date of issue. Clear instruction on appeal submission, including the timescales involved, are detailed on the Unpaid Fare Notice issued by Greater Anglia."

Why did you not appeal in time? Although, you have no case anyway.

Two;
"Your appeal arrived at this office after the deadline. Having viewed this submission fully, there are no mitigating circumstances for consideration and the right to appeal has been forfeited."

Absolutely correct.

Surly there are mitigating circumstances. Their equipment did not work! Meaning it was not my fault I couldn't pay. Meaning I shouldn't have got a ticket in the first place. 21 days appeal or not?

What mitigating circumstances? Who told you that because the equipment did not work, you would be given a free ride?

I mean seriously, what are my options? Am I not correct in thinking I shouldn't have got a fine due to their equipment not working? Making the whole process invalid.

Pay it.

You were given an opportunity to pay the fare you still owe, you ignored it so it has now escalated. You were not given a fine in the first place, you were given an invoice for the fare you never paid.

How much further can I take it? I mean there saying this is it. Pay the fine or it "may result in Greater Anglia taking further action to recover the outstanding debt." Is there no one else I can talk to?

Whoever you talk to will give you the same answer.

I know they have a direct number but it is damn hard to get hold of them. Is it worth calling them up? What could I say?

If anyone can give me some advice it would be much appreciated. Thank you so much.

Pay it.

You tried to be clever and you were wrong. Ignore the latest demand and the whole thing will get much worse for you, potentially a criminal record, and I am not scaremongering.

 

[Flamingo]

Just to echo what EVERYBODY else has told the OP, you have just learned a valuable lesson, cheaper than some - the Railways ability to bugger you about is MUCH greater than your ability to bugger the railway about.

Pay for your journey, and don't try to be a smartass next time.

 

[yorkie]

I think we'd best leave the thread there as there is nothing constructive any of us can add.