How far can we go in simplifying service patterns?

[Magdalia]

No, they choose based on price and journey times. Not train types. In general only one type works each service by price and journey time. It's very rare for a different train type to work each of the three options.

A large proportion of off peak journeys from Cambridge are on day travelcards that are not tied to a particular train or operator. The fast Kings Cross, Brighton Thameslink and Liverpool Street services are all every 30 minutes so there is a choice at any departure time.

The very, very high prices are a key reason why more people won't return to using Thameslink at peak times,

That only applies for journeys requiring travel in the morning peak. For journeys starting after the morning peak, the extra cost for peak time on the return is marginal. A day off peak travelcard from Cambridge, with discount and peak time return travel is £26.40. Kings Cross only is £19.95. Those are not high prices.

So you admit that the number of seats provided is small in relation to the number of people who can hypothetically travel on the train?

A single car of a class 700 may have slightly fewer seats than a single car of another rolling stock type, but that's not the point. The Thameslink 2018 service with class 700s has many more seats than what was provided before because the trains are longer and there are more of them. There are a lot more seats on a 12 car class 700 than a 4 car class 317 or class 319, and there are still plenty of seats for more traffic growth.

 

[Starmill]

A large proportion of off peak journeys from Cambridge are on day travelcards that are not tied to a particular train or operator. The fast Kings Cross, Brighton Thameslink and Liverpool Street services are all every 30 minutes so there is a choice at any departure time.

Indeed, and nearly all of those passengers use the non-stop services. Unsurprisingly.

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That only applies for journeys requiring travel in the morning peak. For journeys starting after the morning peak, the extra cost for peak time on the return is marginal. A day off peak travelcard from Cambridge, with discount and peak time return travel is £26.40. Kings Cross only is £19.95. Those are not high prices.

In general this means no arrivals in London before 1000 on weekdays. Rather a large proportion of journeys. Again, unsurprisingly, given what the infrastructure was built to serve.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jul 2023 ==

A single car of a class 700 may have slightly fewer seats than a single car of another rolling stock type, but that's not the point.

Not slightly. And it is the point.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jul 2023 ==

The Thameslink 2018 service with class 700s has many more seats than what was provided before because the trains are longer and there are more of them.

Nobody said otherwise.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jul 2023 ==

There are a lot more seats on a 12 car class 700 than a 4 car class 317 or class 319, and there are still plenty of seats for more traffic growth.

Why don't you return to the thing I originally said?

Very few seats are available for traffic growth because the ratio is so low. Nearly all of the available seats are at least one of the following:
- Much, much too expensive because they're on a train that arrives in London before 1000 on a weekday and no Advance ticket allocation is available
- Late in the evening, or early on a Saturday morning, times when travel is very unpopular
- Not available for a journey to or from London, which is what people actually want, and only available for an unpopular or uncompetitive journey, like Balcombe to Hassocks or Ashwell & Morden to Cambridge