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How could Southeastern get more siding/depot space?

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Meerkat

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You're really presuming an extension soon considering the current delays?
No, but if you are spending a mass of money building a new Slade Green you don’t want to be building it on top of the Crossrail route (which is already passively protected isn’t it?).
Also a new Slade Green wouldn’t be operational for a few years, by which time everything will be different
 
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hwl

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Hoo Junction seems a long way out, whereas Slade Green seems a near perfect location to an amateur.
I guess the issue would be trying to keep Slade Green open during expansion or finding temporary stabling somewhere, and also leaving provision for Crossrail to get through the site at some point
A bit more difficult in practice. The siding opposite and the southerrn shed are 10 car max so the extension would need to be length wise by quite a bit to cope with both going upto more 12car as well as sideways to the east and this bring big issues with junctions and then there is Crossrail extension provision...
 

hwl

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No, but if you are spending a mass of money building a new Slade Green you don’t want to be building it on top of the Crossrail route (which is already passively protected isn’t it?).
Also a new Slade Green wouldn’t be operational for a few years, by which time everything will be different

Depot space isn't the only issue they are very short of stabling too and this can't be address just by works at Slade Green.
 

Meerkat

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Crossrail at OOC is Single ended. You could put a big single ended shed in the fields to the East of the current Slade Green.
 

hwl

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Crossrail at OOC is Single ended. You could put a big single ended shed in the fields to the East of the current Slade Green.
There is planning permission in progress for a large logistics park with rail access "Howbury Park" on the fields so there insn't a huge amount of extra width for more rail stuff just 5-6 tracks worth for rail shed.

https://www.roxhill.co.uk/portfolio/howbury-park-dartford/masterplan/

Currently still some where in appeals process. Green belt vs jobs etc.

At Slade you need to send/receive trains in both directions unlike OOC
 

Meerkat

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There is planning permission in progress for a large logistics park with rail access "Howbury Park" on the fields so there insn't a huge amount of extra width for more rail stuff just 5-6 tracks worth for rail shed.

https://www.roxhill.co.uk/portfolio/howbury-park-dartford/masterplan/

Currently still some where in appeals process. Green belt vs jobs etc.

At Slade you need to send/receive trains in both directions unlike OOC

ah that logistics park is a bit awkward! Bet the planners smile a bit at the idea of finding paths for freight to get out of there!
Presumably getting trains into a single ended shed from both directions might still be easier than sending them all the way to Hoo Junction?
 

ScotGG

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Plumstead sidings could take 6 tracks of 12 carriage trains north of the existing sidings. Crossrail are vacating the site and no future plans for it. Have a look on google maps at the extensive triangle of brownfield land currently a temporary Crossrail worksite. The permanent crossrail depot is to the east.

Also why not push for expansion in the mid term of Slade Green onto adjacent green belt? That obviously isn't easy but there is precedent. When a freight terminal was approved on appeal there on green belt land NR could have pushed for expansion. That was 5-10 years ago now so missed that window.
 
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millemille

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ah that logistics park is a bit awkward! Bet the planners smile a bit at the idea of finding paths for freight to get out of there!
Presumably getting trains into a single ended shed from both directions might still be easier than sending them all the way to Hoo Junction?

I'm not quite sure where "all the way to Hoo Junction" is coming from?

Everything for the Medway towns runs past there as a matter of course and it's closer to London than Gillingham depot.
 

hwl

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ah that logistics park is a bit awkward! Bet the planners smile a bit at the idea of finding paths for freight to get out of there!
Presumably getting trains into a single ended shed from both directions might still be easier than sending them all the way to Hoo Junction?
a) The Dartford station pinch point need addressing anyway.
b) A good number of the trains go out to the Medway towns any way
c) Hoo is only 10 miles away
d) Slade wouldn't close even if you built something at Hoo, it would provide the opportunity for reconfiguration.

Buying the refuse/skip yard to the south and extending that way would address most southern shed issues.
 

Meerkat

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I'm not quite sure where "all the way to Hoo Junction" is coming from?

Everything for the Medway towns runs past there as a matter of course and it's closer to London than Gillingham depot.

Southeastern Metro doesn’t go down there does it?
 

Meerkat

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a) The Dartford station pinch point need addressing anyway.
b) A good number of the trains go out to the Medway towns any way
c) Hoo is only 10 miles away
d) Slade wouldn't close even if you built something at Hoo, it would provide the opportunity for reconfiguration.

Buying the refuse/skip yard to the south and extending that way would address most southern shed issues.

The logistics park plan has a Rail link that curves round immediately to the south of the southern shed
 

hwl

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The logistics park plan has a Rail link that curves round immediately to the south of the southern shed
The rail link was just to get planning permission, no actually things it would ever get used...
 

hwl

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They would still have to build it though
I'm sure the oweners wouldn't mind too much if it was removed fairly soon afterwards for a better use after they have "ticked the box"
 

Horizon22

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At Slade you need to send/receive trains in both directions unlike OOC

You do currently yes, but operationally you could set it up to only send/receive from one direction (i.e to Dartford)
Southeastern Metro doesn’t go down there does it?

True, but there's a lot of Gravesend starters these days.

I reckon if they were truly looking for something new, somewhere like Swanley might be a good shout - on Chatham mainline and can get to Charing X / Cannon St via the loops at Chislehurst Junction. There's a bit of space east of the town. So it's feasible in theory, in practice though you need planning permission, locals on side etc.
 

Islineclear3_1

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Having been through Canterbury East today there appears to be some old siding land beyond the Dover end of the platforms; perhaps a couple of sidings there could store the late weekday CBE terminators that currently go to the Faversham sidings overnight, freeing those up for something else (or an alternative stock arrangement)? :idea:

There used to be an engineer's siding on the Up side south of the station but it is only "one" siding and probably not much use. There used to be a couple of sidings at Sevenoaks from memory but again, not much space.

My money would be to redevelop Chart Leacon. At least the land is still there

What stables in the Jubilee sidings at Tonbridge during the day?
 

Meerkat

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Let the Slade Green logistics place break the green belt deadlock then hope they don’t fancy their financial viability anymore (they might be quite happy for the railway to buy half the site off them and release them from having to provide the rail sidings.
 

Horizon22

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There used to be an engineer's siding on the Up side south of the station but it is only "one" siding and probably not much use. There used to be a couple of sidings at Sevenoaks from memory but again, not much space.

My money would be to redevelop Chart Leacon. At least the land is still there

What stables in the Jubilee sidings at Tonbridge during the day?

Sevenoaks turnback is used by GTR now and they berth a few units there, but there's only 2-3 sidings I think.
 

brad465

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Southeastern Metro doesn’t go down there does it?

True, but there's a lot of Gravesend starters these days.
There are some peak Strood starters and terminators in the respective peaks that currently come from/go to Slade Green or Plumstead as ECS, if the staff logistics can be altered the rolling stock would have a much easier move from Hoo Jct to manage those peak services if converted.

What stables in the Jubilee sidings at Tonbridge during the day?
Those sidings are favourites for Tunbridge Wells' services and some other long distance stablings, so 465/9 sets and Electrostars are commonly stored there.
 

hkstudent

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Let the Slade Green logistics place break the green belt deadlock then hope they don’t fancy their financial viability anymore (they might be quite happy for the railway to buy half the site off them and release them from having to provide the rail sidings.
Metropolitan Green Belt issue is too difficult to break and I don't think SG Depot expansion does have the justfication to de-designate Green Belt designation.
 
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