How could a national Mobility as a Service be implemented?

[coppercapped]

MaaS is explicitly not only about connections at railway stations, those are merely an example where the current UK public transport system has problems. MaaS is about providing a mobility solution which fits the journey in question. That can be a 'traditional' journey with bus and train, but also a shared car or scooter, or whatever other mode. So for suburb to suburb the MaaS journey planner would give a shared car as option with low travel time and public transport with a long travel time and a change. But whatever option you choose, you can pay for it in the app or on the website (but the app also just can state the fare and say 'pay by contactless'). And if you use a shared car, you can immediately reserve it. MaaS is thus about making travelling easy without needing to own a car.

The point of the posts about connections between bus and train is that one app/website/system with all options is nice and might increase use because people get to know new options and don't need to faff with 20 different websites. However, if the provided options are not very good, it will not have the full potential effect. By coordinating at least some connections, the public transport options become more attractive.

With respect to the name, it is called this way because the ultimate goal is about changing the ownership of vehicles and changing the mindset of people: from personal vehicles to seeing it just as a service. You get your app and arrange your travel with two clicks. But before we will get there, there quite a few steps need to be taken...

So, how do I reach a 'shared car' from my front door? If I have to walk/scooter/cycle/bus/taxi anywhere to collect it then forget it - it is no longer of any interest whatsoever, especially if I am carrying something and it's raining. Or is the car delivered to my address? In which case the delivery driver will have to use his/her scooter to take him/her back to the office as I am sure as hell not going to make a detour at my expense in miles or time to drop him/her off.

Or does 'shared car' mean that somebody else is already in it and for all or part of the journey this stranger is present? In which case, again, forget it.

The point about having one's own vehicle is that it is immediately available with no hassle. How long will I have to wait before a vehicle becomes available at my front door if I order it using an app? Or do I have to book it in advance for a particular time? In either case it is more hassle and trouble than the present way of doing things.

Software as a service works because the latency is small, hardware as a service — even if you pretend it is 'mobility' — always, always involves delivery times.

And what, pray, is the point of changing the ownership of vehicles? If the private owner is happy to supply the capital for the vehicle's purchase and the cash for the ongoing maintenance and other operating expenses what is the point of getting the state (or a bank or other financial institution) involved? State money can only come out of taxation or borrowing and the latter will get expensive if interest rates start to rise. As indeed they already have done; over the past couple of weeks rates have risen by 0.5% on 10 year bonds as a way is now seen out of the pandemic and increasing economic activity is now being priced into bond yields. A 1% increase means, in the case of the UK and on its current borrowings, an increase in interest payments over a year of around £35,000 million - that is an extra of around £530 for every man, woman and child in the country. This is just the increase, not the total amount.

 

[squizzler]

A mobile app that tells you your journey that takes 2 hours and costs £30 in petrol by car, but takes 5 hours and £200 by public transport, is not going to sell the latter option. The basic, underlying system has to be there first, well before you create a mobile app that exists to tell people just how much of an embarrassment and a poor choice it is for their journey.

I don't see MaaS as an attempt to 'sell' any option, rather it is to deliver consumer choice, and allow the user to make their decision based on the priorities of the time.

I feel that an even greater danger, even with 'takt' connections and integrated fares, is that your journey takes 2 hours and costs £30 in petrol by car, 4 hours [because of walking to and from PT service point/indirect routeing/not every connection can be optimal] with 4 changes and £50 by public transport and 2 hours for £70 by taxi direct. If the taxi option is given alongside public transport, how many without access to a car would pay the extra for the taxi convenience (No changing and departure on demand) if given 'on a plate'? Quite a few for non-regular j(commuter) type journeys I suspect.

A full-blown implementation of MaaS would (I think) rely on subscription for the service. So whilst these options may be presented at a journey search, an entry level user indeed only have the 'transit' option included and be charged on top for taxis, etc. A higher tier subscriber might get access to a certain amount of taxi or self-drive car per month, and choose to blow some of their allowance on this trip.

So, how do I reach a 'shared car' from my front door?

Walk?

The point about having one's own vehicle is that it is immediately available with no hassle.

In urban and even many suburban areas it is actually tends to be wherever you last managed to park it, which may be a stroll away, or even in a formal parking garage a few blocks away. Here in Jersey the local electric car share club has dedicated bays for its vehicles so they are more likely to be in the same place each time than normal on-street cars.

And what, pray, is the point of changing the ownership of vehicles?

Private motor cars on average sit idle for an embarrassing period of their life - something in the order of 96% of the time. Club ownership means each one can be in use a lot more of the time, and thus be amortised a lot faster. Particularly beneficial with electric cars whose higher purchase costs are offset by much lower running costs, making an intensification of their use much more desirable from an economic point of view.

 

[biko]

So, how do I reach a 'shared car' from my front door? If I have to walk/scooter/cycle/bus/taxi anywhere to collect it then forget it - it is no longer of any interest whatsoever, especially if I am carrying something and it's raining. Or is the car delivered to my address? In which case the delivery driver will have to use his/her scooter to take him/her back to the office as I am sure as hell not going to make a detour at my expense in miles or time to drop him/her off.

MaaS is about making it easy to use any type of mobility, whether it is public transport or a shared car. Shared cars are not really a big thing yet, but in the future, you would have a few shared cars placed at strategic points in a neighbourhood, or maybe even at the end of most roads. The whole point of MaaS is that you can just use the mode which fits the journey best. So shared car would be ideal if you need to travel from one suburb to another while your partner is using the only car in the household for example. If you don't want to use it, fine, but that's not the point, it is about giving people more choice and ease while choosing. So not faffing with 4 apps for booking a multimodal journey or comparing the costs on multiple websites. One portal to arrange everything. So I think that will have considerate advantages.

Or does 'shared car' mean that somebody else is already in it and for all or part of the journey this stranger is present? In which case, again, forget it.

Could be, but I meant carsharing as in you're the only one using it at a given time, but the next day your neighbour could be using it for example.

The point about having one's own vehicle is that it is immediately available with no hassle. How long will I have to wait before a vehicle becomes available at my front door if I order it using an app? Or do I have to book it in advance for a particular time? In either case it is more hassle and trouble than the present way of doing things.

MaaS is thus about removing these problems as far as possible. The app/website/whatever shows exactly what is available for you at a given time. Probably you can book in advance, but that will not be always needed. That isn't a consequence of MaaS however, that depends on the modes available as part of the MaaS scheme. So you could also have modes which are more to your taste.

And what, pray, is the point of changing the ownership of vehicles? If the private owner is happy to supply the capital for the vehicle's purchase and the cash for the ongoing maintenance and other operating expenses what is the point of getting the state (or a bank or other financial institution) involved? State money can only come out of taxation or borrowing and the latter will get expensive if interest rates start to rise. As indeed they already have done; over the past couple of weeks rates have risen by 0.5% on 10 year bonds as a way is now seen out of the pandemic and increasing economic activity is now being priced into bond yields. A 1% increase means, in the case of the UK and on its current borrowings, an increase in interest payments over a year of around £35,000 million - that is an extra of around £530 for every man, woman and child in the country. This is just the increase, not the total amount.

The whole point is that there is no space for all those cars in the cities and towns, especially with an increasing population. Actually, we need less cars right now to make more space for active modes of transport and generally a greener environment to reduce the impact of climate change. The problem is that most cars are standing still for 90% of the time and take space we can also use for walking, planting trees, or something else. By reducing car ownership, it becomes possible to meet those other goals. MaaS is part of the solution to make people less dependent on their cars. So with MaaS it should become easy to hire a car if you need one or book the full public transport trip.

You mention a lot about financing those vehicles: the idea is not specifically that the state should provide shared cars, MaaS is the portal to all privately and publicly provided modes. Those modes can be anything and can be supplied by anyone.

 

[telstarbox]

Worth noting that the technology for "time sharing" cars already exists as Zipcar etc and for "occupancy sharing" cars as Uber Pool, at least before Covid hit.

The obvious next step would be the removal of human driving so that an empty car could move itself from the end of one person's trip to the doorstep of the next person in the area who wants to travel.

 

[HSTEd]

If practical technology for self driving cars is available, then many of the economic roadblocks to shorter-more frequent trains being taken to their ultimate conclusion dissapear.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If practical technology for self driving cars is available, then many of the economic roadblocks to shorter-more frequent trains being taken to their ultimate conclusion dissapear.

Or "if you can do self driving cars, you can definitely do self driving trains".

 

[squizzler]

As someone not living in the UK, I found it quite difficult to find good information. Google Maps is indeed a huge improvement, but things like interchange times are not correct and I believe I read something about some operators missing from the data, but not sure about that. Traveline is hopelessly outdated, and very unfriendly to the user. Furthermore, the cost is not provided. Maybe I got used to the Dutch national planner which does do fares and gives clear and correct information.

I suspect a large part of the problem is the fragmented ownership and operation of the various transport concerns. The times allowed for interchange are probably a work in progress, but not so bad. Perhaps a lot of the problem is that the UK system is the only one that we really know well, and as such we just learn to live with its foibles.

That’s interesting as MaaS is not only about public transport. It is about removing the need to own a car by providing shared alternatives in an easy way, that’s why it is called mobility as a service. So shared cars could also be part of the proposition. I’m not sure if that is what train operators want to make more attractive. But I would certainly think that it would be logical for RDG to take an interest in it.

I agree, perhaps I should stick with my initial proposal for MaaS implementation being carried out at Subnational Transport Body level. RDG should no doubt integrate their systems into the STB's MaaS so that journeys planned through National Rail offer the full range of mobility options for the last mile.

MaaS is not really a thing in the Netherlands except in government and consultancies. We do have an national integrated planner but not with other modes than public transport. In a recent tender for the bus network in my local area, the operator had to make a journey planner with other modes to tick the MaaS box, but I don’t think any real user would find it. That planner does provide journeys using the shared bicycles at a railway station, so is ‘more MaaS’ than the previous ones.

What we see here is that NS and the operators in the big cities are trying to build a new platform before commercial operators do. Interestingly, the most MaaS-like system here is something that is not marketed as such. It is now possible to travel with a OV-chipkaart without any money on it and that all costs are billed at the end of the month. Not only for trains but also for buses and shared bicycles and I believe some shared cars too.

I agree that it would be nice for the municipal and national corporations to bring a proper MaaS to market before a silicon valley outfit manages to do so. I am mot sure that many operators will be willing to hand over their fortunes to an IT firm, and that is where a municipal system has the upper hand, with it being run as a public service rather than a data gathering exercise.

Another other option might be for a co-op to be established by the various operators to run the MaaS, where all the firms mutually contribute and benefit.

As for OV-chipkaart, I remember studying in the Netherlands as part of the Erasmus Socrates programme, and being issued with a 'Chipkaart'. Being able to pay for the smallest things (rather than a minimum spend for card transactions then the norm) felt at the time just like living in the future! N)o doubt the system continued to evolve since then...

 

[biko]

I agree, perhaps I should stick with my initial proposal for MaaS implementation being carried out at Subnational Transport Body level. RDG should no doubt integrate their systems into the STB's MaaS so that journeys planned through National Rail offer the full range of mobility options for the last mile.

Indeed, that's the kind of thing MaaS is aiming for and I believe that would give benefits also without major changes to the underlying public transport network.

I agree that it would be nice for the municipal and national corporations to bring a proper MaaS to market before a silicon valley outfit manages to do so. I am mot sure that many operators will be willing to hand over their fortunes to an IT firm, and that is where a municipal system has the upper hand, with it being run as a public service rather than a data gathering exercise.

That is a good point: do we want Silicon Valley to develop MaaS and therefore have access to all data? The problem is with public service systems that development is sometimes too slow.

Another other option might be for a co-op to be established by the various operators to run the MaaS, where all the firms mutually contribute and benefit.

So I would tend more towards this system. This has been used in NL for the OV-chipkaart, in which all operators participate, both the public and private ones. However, with respect to MaaS they are currently competing and private companies are complaining that the public ones take the lead.

As for OV-chipkaart, I remember studying in the Netherlands as part of the Erasmus Socrates programme, and being issued with a 'Chipkaart'. Being able to pay for the smallest things (rather than a minimum spend for card transactions then the norm) felt at the time just like living in the future! N)o doubt the system continued to evolve since then...

Ah I think you mean the chipknip. That has been discontinued in 2013. Nobody used it anymore as the minimum spend was removed and contactless became a thing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed, that's the kind of thing MaaS is aiming for and I believe that would give benefits also without major changes to the underlying public transport network.

Whereas I genuinely believe that MaaS won't improve anything without major changes to the underlying public transport network, which in the UK is fundamentally faulty, primarily because it isn't considered as a network, just a collection of independent routes. Of course the Netherlands is starting from a rather better base there than we are, not least because you recognise that connections are actually a thing!

I'd oppose any public funding going on this when there's a fundamental problem to solve with the base network first. It's icing on top of the cake, not a fundamental transport concept. The latter need to be got right as a priority first.

I neither care nor not care if anyone wants to do it commercially, of course - if someone wants to set up a private business, privately funded, that is up to them.

 

[biko]

Whereas I genuinely believe that MaaS won't improve anything without major changes to the underlying public transport network, which in the UK is fundamentally faulty, primarily because it isn't considered as a network, just a collection of independent routes. Of course the Netherlands is starting from a rather better base there than we are, not least because you recognise that connections are actually a thing!

I'd oppose any public funding going on this when there's a fundamental problem to solve with the base network first. It's icing on top of the cake, not a fundamental transport concept. The latter need to be got right as a priority first.

I neither care nor not care if anyone wants to do it commercially, of course - if someone wants to set up a private business, privately funded, that is up to them.

I get where you come from, but I think it is a bit more complex than that. Looking only at public transport, you are totally right: the UK needs to do connections first, otherwise MaaS will just be a too simple way for the government to say they 'improved' something about multimodal public transport. That's what I've said before in this thread too. You would just have a journey planner showing the bad connections and ridiculous fares for multimodal trips.

However, the other aspect of MaaS is that all kinds of modes are included. If there would be an app now in which you could also hire and reserve a car from the station in the same transaction as the train ticket, that would be good now as well. That's what my latest posts were about, but possibly not too clear as MaaS is a bit of a broad thing...

With a commercial setup, you have the risk that some companies will not be included in the system, rendering the whole thing useless as system in which everything should become visible and bookable. So I think there should at least be some kind of regulation to make it work.

 

[Bletchleyite]

However, the other aspect of MaaS is that all kinds of modes are included. If there would be an app now in which you could also hire and reserve a car from the station in the same transaction as the train ticket, that would be good now as well. That's what my latest posts were about, but possibly not too clear as MaaS is a bit of a broad thing...

I think this is the problem with MaaS - unlike SaaS (Software as a Service, which is basically the fairly simple concept of software provided and managed externally to your business, e.g. Office 365 vs. an on-premise Exchange server maintained by your company) it doesn't mean one clear thing.

The thing is, mobility other than by way of private car, bicycle and foot already is a service.

I don't think you're going to get that regulation because car hire firms won't accept being regulated, and nor really should they. On the other hand, they might accept the extra business from being integrated into a commercial system - but there's no reason at all Trainline or a TOC couldn't negotiate a deal with one of the big hire firms and offer this now, for example. You then move away from the "buzzword bingo" of MaaS and just deal with it for what it is - "booking inclusive car hire when you book your train ticket". Which is something airlines already do!

I think there's an element of "divide and conquer" with this.

 

[ashkeba]

- for instance in Germany CC-Karten are commonly offered in urban areas - these are off-peak season tickets, and to this day I can't work out why they are called that!

It stands for CityCenter-Karte. It is called that because Germans love Americanisms. It does not make sense with such big zones but many product names no longer make sense.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It stands for CityCenter-Karte. It is called that because Germans love Americanisms. It does not make sense with such big zones but many product names no longer make sense.

Cheers. I have wondered that for over 20 years!