How can Arriva justify their fares?

[Old Timer]

So you deny that private companies first priority is to make the best possible returns on its shareholders investment?
Any company that does not do this rapidly falls to pieces..

I am not sure how you managed to reach this conclusion.

...I'm not sure why you compare computer design and manufacturing to infrastructural and public service businesses where almost by definition there is no functioning market, or with transport businesses where any competition has long since ceased in favour of every company cooperating to avoid wasting shareholders money competing when they can all generate better returns sticking to there own ground.
(You don't see Volvo and Ford refusing to sell cars in areas "claimed" by the other, or Asus and Dell undertaking to cooperate to hold prices of computers unreasonably high).

That demonstrates both a misunderstanding of my post and a misunderstanding of how the Market works. The public sector has demonstrated over many many years that it is not capable of running any operation in an effective or efficient way. The GPO telephone service was a good example. You say that you are using a hard wired telephone line for your Internet connection, well prior to Privatisation there were waits of up to several months for the installation of a telephone line, indeed BR had arrangements with the GPO so that staff who were on-call were given priority. I waited two months for a telephone line to be connected in the 80s undert this arrangement. The telephone you were given was a standard unit, there being only one, and the only choice available was the colour - assuming you were lucky enough to be able to get one that you requested.

You suggest that not only are companies "co-operating" within their own markets but staying out of others as if by some sort of arrangement. This is completely wrong and a gain demonstrates a less than informed opinion. Eddie Stobart and Malcolm are bitter competitors within the road haulage Industry and both have moved out into rail transport, Stenna Line and Irish Ferries compete fiercely on the Irish Sea, all the Supermarkets are fighting each other for market share, and car companies are ruthlessly targeting their competitors quality market through targeted mailshots (which presumably you do not get?), and invitations to open evenings and special events.

.....I wasn't aware the rate of Corporation Tax was 100% either, the bus company almost certainly takes all possible measures to reduce its tax burden (as this maximises the return for the investor)..

An adolescent response which rather spoils any point you may have tried to make.

....If the service was publically owned and the fares were this high the surplus generated by a Municipal Bus Company would be, in its entirity transferred to the council's or central government's coffers..

Were this to be true then Government and Local Authorities would be running everything. Unfortunately the reality is that neither of these organisations have any business acumen, and are staffed pretty much by risk averse people whose primary concern is to keep their head down and follow through with the flow of things until a comfortable guarnatedd final salary pension beckons.

A perfect example of the inability of any Governmental organisation to manage is the DfT and its hold on rolling stock for example. Something that gets bemoaned about here at extraordinary length.

Most Local Authorities have discovered that private sector companies can deliver services much cheaper than can be done internally, which is why they are being used more and more.

....A Bus company is not a computer company..

Only you are suggesting it is, with the inference that it is not subject to market forces in the same way as a Computer company. That again shows a lack of understanding as to how free enterprise actually works. I believe I am correct in saying that one benefit of bus privatisation is that the condition of buses has improved considerably, and the fleet age is much younger by comparison. Again one has to ask the question if National Express would be where it is now had it remained nationalised.

....Oh and for the record the wired line I am currently using for this internet conection is a copper loop installed by British Telecom prior to privatisation so was not installed by the private sector.

Oh dear (yawn) no doubt the wired connection maybe but the whole internet and digital exchange equipment infrastructure that enables this to happen was not installed under nationalised conditions.



I have to say that your whole tone and perspective screams from the roof tops a lack of experience of having lived in the UK when most things were under Government control -aka nationalised. Had that been the case then your vociferous defence of nationalisation would be much subdued unless you are of course a believer in Government control in which case you would be advised to look at the Former Soviet Union, China, and Cuba where they have finally decided that this does not work and private sector involvement in the economy is a ncessary and desirable thing. Even Castro says so.

 

[WestCoast]

Many areas of the country are served predominately by one big transport group nowadays, which has occured through buy outs, competition wars and so on. In reality, there is very little competition for many bus companies, apart from the private car and taxis of course. Unlike the railways, which has a certain amount of fare regulation, outside PTE areas bus companies can charge what they like and some certainly do take advantage of the captive audience. Plus, the fact that so many bus users seem to be free pass holders, of which the bus firms are only reimbursed a certain percentage of the single fare. This varies between councils.

It's not like the ferries, airlines or intercity coach companies where direct or indirect competition drives prices down, as the fact is, there often is no competition.

I'd assert that the best bus companies left are smaller independents and municipal firms. Lothian Buses in Edinburgh has an excellent reputation (aside from the tram nonsense) and defeated First Group many times when they duplicated routes.

Which part of the country has arguably the best ran bus network? London, where everything is regulated, although private firms operate the services. There is an element of competition as the firms compete to provide the service to the highest standard at the lowest cost to the Transport Executive.