Holding Harrogate Line trains at Harrogate for reliability and passenger simplicity.

[HST43257]

It's a fairly small change, but what if Harrogate Line trains going east towards York were held at Harrogate for a few minutes?

Benefits I see would be improving reliability coming onto the single like sections between Knaresborough and York, and making it so Harrogate Line trains can all use Platform 8 at York, rather than 1tph in 8 and 1tph in 11?

It would create a 25 minute turnaround at York and it may make the passing of trains closer to Cattal than Hammerton.

It shouldn't be a huge issue since most passengers are going to/from Harrogate in my experience.

 

[Starmill]

Are you suggesting inserting an additional unit diagram? Would you be able to find an additional three car (or pair of two cars)?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are you suggesting inserting an additional unit diagram? Would you be able to find an additional three car (or pair of two cars)?

Given how sluggish the 170s are, you could probably get that time back by switching it to 195s instead and using the 170s on something more suitable, i.e. an express route with few stops.

 

[30907]

I think the issue would be the lengthy single-lead Skelton Jn: the last thing you want is a train leaving York without a clear run through to Poppleton, as it would block the down ECML. You would have to plan on trains from Harrogate being held clear of the junction while it passed, and that would add a good 10 minutes to the journey between Cattal and York.

Are you suggesting inserting an additional unit diagram? Would you be able to find an additional three car (or pair of two cars)?

The present turnround is 31min, so no.

Given how sluggish the 170s are, you could probably get that time back by switching it to 195s instead and using the 170s on something more suitable, i.e. an express route with few stops.

Agree about 195s but you would need to cut several minutes east of Hammerton to save a set, and I doubt that's possible.

 

[HST43257]

No extra units, just a slightly slower cross-Harrogate timing

 

[Starmill]

No extra units, just a slightly slower cross-Harrogate timing

In which case it's unlikely that it's possible to keep the Harrogate - York journey time as today.

 

[HST43257]

In which case it's unlikely that it's possible to keep the Harrogate - York journey time as today.

If it waits at Harrogate, it doesn‘t affect the Harrogate to York journey, just the lesser travelled Horsforth (example) to York journey.

 

[Starmill]

If it waits at Harrogate, it doesn‘t affect the Harrogate to York journey, just the lesser travelled Horsforth (example) to York journey.

It would if it affected the crossing of trains between Poppleton and York.

 

[skyhigh]

I honestly can't see how it would work. The turnaround at Leeds is too short (ignoring the pathing issues) to have an earlier departure from Leeds, arrive earlier at Harrogate and maintain the time leaving Harrogate for the single lines and Skelton Junction. Retime the departure from Harrogate later and you'll have trouble with the single lines and Skelton Junction.

It would be quite a lot of fuss for a relatively small gain.

 

[HST43257]

I honestly can't see how it would work. The turnaround at Leeds is too short (ignoring the pathing issues) to have an earlier departure from Leeds, arrive earlier at Harrogate and maintain the time leaving Harrogate for the single lines and Skelton Junction. Retime the departure from Harrogate later and you'll have trouble with the single lines and Skelton Junction.

It would be quite a lot of fuss for a relatively small gain.

Nothing changes at the Leeds end. 2-3 extra minutes at Harrogate and trains pass at Hammerton rather than near Cattal. Next trains pass just outside York.

 

[zwk500]

Nothing changes at the Leeds end. 2-3 extra minutes at Harrogate and trains pass at Hammerton rather than near Cattal. Next trains pass just outside York.

Where? Skelton Jn is single lead and the section approaching York Station itself is too busy to be stacking trains up on a regular basis.

 

[JRT]

The proposed Harrogate Line timetable connected with the East Coast/LNER recast currently scheduled for May 2023 sees the stopper departure from Leeds seven minutes later at :06 and :36, with departure from York unchanged at :13 and :43.
The :29 and :59 departures from Leeds being allocated to the FAST Harrogate and the LNER extension (trains also departing King's Cross seven minutes later).

 

[30907]

Nothing changes at the Leeds end. 2-3 extra minutes at Harrogate and trains pass at Hammerton rather than near Cattal. Next trains pass just outside York.

They do at the moment. See my reply upthread - you are moving the passing point too near Skelton Jn.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Considering services between Leeds & Knaresborough via Harrogate are timed to cross at Starbeck I don't think delaying them at Harrogate would be a good idea, actually delaying them anywhere West of Knaresborough for that matter!

 

[rapmastaj]

As far as I can tell, travel between Leeds stations and Knaresborough is quite popular. It's certainly a journey I've done often enough, to go on days out or cycle rides from Knaresborough or Starbeck. There would have to be a reasonable degree of reliability improvements to make it worth adding several extra minutes waiting time onto all of these journeys.

 

[Triang Hornby]

As far as I can tell, travel between Leeds stations and Knaresborough is quite popular. It's certainly a journey I've done often enough, to go on days out or cycle rides from Knaresborough or Starbeck. There would have to be a reasonable degree of reliability improvements to make it worth adding several extra minutes waiting time onto all of these journeys.

Has there been any tangible improvements for the travel experience between York and Knaresborough since the alterations to the line and signalling?

 

[Neptune]

Has there been any tangible improvements for the travel experience between York and Knaresborough since the alterations to the line and signalling?

A half hourly all day service.