Hitchin-Peterborough

[philjo]

Is the CDR Hitchin-Peterborough (£10) valid on East coast services Stevenage-PBO?
NFM07 says route "any permitted" - I think the older versions restricted this to FCC services - certainly NFM04 says route "Direct"

I have an annual season that covers the Stevenage-Hitchin section (Hitchin is no longer part of Stevenage Group)

 

[yorkie]

svg - hit season + hit - pbo CDR is perfectly valid on non-stop trains.

is hitchin really no longer part of svg group? that'll add over half an hour on a journey like york to letchworth. can they do that?

 

[asylumxl]

svg - hit season + hit - pbo CDR is perfectly valid on non-stop trains.

is hitchin really no longer part of svg group? that'll add over half an hour on a journey like york to letchworth. can they do that?

Can't be worse than the time it'd take to use Arrivas buses... if they don't break down first.

 

[philjo]

Thanks Yorkie.

I am told that Stevenage group has been abolished.
The new routeing guide loaded recently now has Stevenage & Hitchin as 2 separate routeing points.
(e.g. for Letchworth the associated Routeing points are now shown as Cambridge & Hitchin)

However, fortunately there is an easement (number 64) that says the travelling to/from Letchworth/Baldock to/from Peterborough & stations beyond is valid via Stevenage. Just checked & it has been updated in the version dated 9/9/10 that the easement now also mentions allowing Hitchin-PBO to travel via Stevenage (so the HIT-PBO CDR would stand via SVG without needing the Season as well.)

Last time I bought this ticket (sometime last year) it was definately marked "FCC only" so they have changed the fares in the last year.

Presumably this means that for Royston/Cambridge you may now have to go via Ely to reach Peterborough rather than via Stevenage (or change at HIT & use FCC) as the easement does not mention these stations & you would now be doubling back through Hitchin (though having said that the east coast website it still allowing you to reserve seats from SVG on this route).

 

[yorkie]

Thanks Yorkie.

No problem I was on a train when I replied, hence the lack of punctuation.

I am told that Stevenage group has been abolished.
The new routeing guide loaded recently now has Stevenage & Hitchin as 2 separate routeing points.
(e.g. for Letchworth the associated Routeing points are now shown as Cambridge & Hitchin)

However, fortunately there is an easement (number 64) that says the travelling to/from Letchworth/Baldock to/from Peterborough & stations beyond is valid via Stevenage. Just checked & it has been updated in the version dated 9/9/10 that the easement now also mentions allowing Hitchin-PBO to travel via Stevenage (so the HIT-PBO CDR would stand via SVG without needing the Season as well.)

Interesting.

To clarify, a Hitchin-Peterborough (HIT-PBO) Off Peak Day Return (CDR) plus a SVG-HIT season is valid on a non-stop train.

A HIT-PBO CDR by itself wasn't, strictly speaking, valid via Stevenage on the basis of the group station rule, because that rule only allows double-backing within the group where both the origin and the destination are out of the group. The abolition of the group makes no difference to such a ticket, but would make a difference to applicable tickets (e.g. Letchworth to Arlesey) however the easement reduces some previous validity but appears to add additional validity for tickets to Hitchin.

Last time I bought this ticket (sometime last year) it was definitely marked "FCC only" so they have changed the fares in the last year.

Presumably this means that for Royston/Cambridge you may now have to go via Ely to reach Peterborough rather than via Stevenage (or change at HIT & use FCC) as the easement does not mention these stations & you would now be doubling back through Hitchin (though having said that the east coast website it still allowing you to reserve seats from SVG on this route).

Yes, ATOC have increased validity for journeys to Hitchin but only if you are going to Peterborough or beyond,, and they have reduced it from many other stations e.g. Shepreth, and those that remain don't have that validity to local stations preceding Peterborough. e.g. Letchworth to Huntingdon.

I suggest you write to Passenger Focus and ask if they approved it. If they did approve it, why did they? If they did not approve it, what happened next?

PF have to be consulted by law on RG changes.

If ATOC are not doing this, then it needs reporting to ORR.

I'd contact PF first thing on Monday if you can.

 

[OwlMan]

Thanks Yorkie.


However, fortunately there is an easement (number 64) that says the travelling to/from Letchworth/Baldock to/from Peterborough & stations beyond is valid via Stevenage. Just checked & it has been updated in the version dated 9/9/10 that the easement now also mentions allowing Hitchin-PBO to travel via Stevenage (so the HIT-PBO CDR would stand via SVG without needing the Season as well.)

Easement number 64 has not altered since at least December 2003 it has always stated "Passengers from Baldock, Letchworth or Hitchin to Peterborough and stations beyond Peterborough may go via Stevenage."

 

[yorkie]

philjo are you sure it's been altered, as collybs does PDF comparisons so if he says it's not been altered then it almost certainly hasn't. That easement only needed to say Hitchin in that case, because the other stations were covered by the Stevenage Group anyway.

I would have major concerns about the effectiveness of Passenger Focus if they approved the abolition of the Stevenage Group without suitable provision being made in the form of an easement. I wonder if they did approve it?

 

[philjo]

Yorkie,

I have just found one of old easements lists - collybs is correct - the easement did mention Hitchin previously. My mistake.

The easement means that Letchworth/Baldock won't lose out on EC journeys by the removal of the Stevenage Group (though will lose for local trips) but passengers for Ashwell&Morden or Royston & stations to Cambridge etc will lose for EC trips as well.
(Obviously in my case I am covered by my season for Letchworth-Stevenage in any event)
In the revamped FCC evening peak timetable most of the new xx:23/xx:53 KX-Royston trains in the evening peak do not call at Hitchin - they call at Stevenage then Letchworth. (the 18:23 from KX calls at Hitchin instead of SVG due to pathing issues)
so with a few exceptions 4tph SVG-Letchworth (17:30-19:00)
2tph Hitchin-letchworth.
Better chance of a reasonable connection time at SVG. (especially as the ones calling at Hitchin tend to sit there for 3-4 minutes waiting to cross the junction at about the same time as the FCC services from PBO call in the opposite direction so you would have a 30 minute wait at HIT.)

Some of the Cambridge stoppers that call at Hitchin during this period do not call at Baldock or Ashwell&Morden. (though the Royston train is only a few minutes behind it at Letchworth but that means an additional change)

Also, several of the EC services that call at Stevenage do not call at Peterborough so allowing travel via SVG improves journey opportunities from Royston/Cambridge (though this situation will change in the Eureka timetable as the Newcastle services no longer call at SVG though SVG will still have an hourly Leeds service next stop Grantham plus the york/Newark stoppers which also call at PBO in any case)

Another important point is that there are lifts available at SVG to allow step-free change of platforms. There are no lifts at Hitchin.

I will contact PF.

 

[Royston Vasey]

I am travelling Royston (RYS) - York (YRK) on Thursday and was allocated a change at SVG straight onto the EC train to YRK. This was booked about 3 weeks ago on the EC site.

However my colleagues are travelling on the same train from PBO to YRK, but were allocated RYS-HIT and HIT-PBO both on FCC, having also booked from EC, but about three weeks earlier. I wonder if there was a glitch in the system for a while that forbade travel via SVG which has been fixed? Or if there's a glitch now which strictly speaking is incorrectly sending me via Stevenage.

I have regularly travelled RYS to the North in the past five years and almost always been allocated via SVG. So is this now forbidden or was it ever thus??

 

[philjo]

The National Rail website has not allowed travel via Stevenage when producing timetable details for a trip such as Doncaster to Letchworth for a couple of months now as it was making me change at Peterborough & Hitchin when the same train also called at Stevenage (it obviously does not have the easement programmed in) - this was late July.
However, I have had no such problems with the East Coast website. it allowed trips from Royston via Stevenage to Doncaster when I was checking a few fares etc last night. Until this is clarified, if you can reserve your seat from SVG & take the print out with you it should be OK.

 

[Royston Vasey]

The National Rail website has not allowed travel via Stevenage when producing timetable details for a trip such as Doncaster to Letchworth for a couple of months now as it was making me change at Peterborough & Hitchin when the same train also called at Stevenage (it obviously does not have the easement programmed in) - this was late July.
However, I have had no such problems with the East Coast website. it allowed trips from Royston via Stevenage to Doncaster when I was checking a few fares etc last night. Until this is clarified, if you can reserve your seat from SVG & take the print out with you it should be OK.

Cheers for that, the seat reservation is booked from SVG so don't foresee any problem. It means I can get a later train than my comrades and get an extra half hour in bed, then meet them on the train at PBO!