Heathrow rail ticket valid on HEX?

[jon0844]

Me and the wife are going to Heathrow (T4) tomorrow, so being nice and organised I got our tickets ready today for tomorrow - saving time, especially at Paddington. As we're not in a rush (but that doesn't mean we want to miss a train queuing up in London), I thought we could take the Heathrow Connect - especially as it saves a change at T123.

I already have a season to London with Z1-6 Travelcard, so I asked for an extension from boundary zone 6 (Hayes & Harlington) to Heathrow. Cost was about £3.45 I think - with a Gold Card discount, that says 'not via London' on it. I then got one for the wife, from Hatfield to Heathrow which cost about £18.50.

Both destinations are Heathrow Rail and there are no other restrictions (nor was there on the Tribute system at the ticket office), so I am wondering; can we use Heathrow Express?

HEX now gives a 1/3 discount with a Gold Card - but of course, while the wife has a single ticket that makes it nice and easy, I'm combining a travelcard season with my extension. Now, I know that normally you can do this even the train doesn't stop (as one is an annual ticket) but HEX has different rules as it's run by BAA.

Does anyone have a definitive answer? Obviously HEX is a little quicker and if there's no restriction marked on the ticket then I can't see why it wouldn't be valid.

 

[glynn80]

Does anyone have a definitive answer? Obviously HEX is a little quicker and if there's no restriction marked on the ticket then I can't see why it wouldn't be valid.

Reading the FRPP it seems they are not valid.

The destination for both Heathrow Connect and Express fares is actually Heathrow Rail.

However your ticket is not valid as Travelcards are not valid on Heathrow Express at all.

Your wife's ticket needed a bit more delving, but basically I found it isn't valid as for through fares using Heathrow Express are derived by placing an add-on amount to the London fare for most flows. The add-on amount for your wife's ticket would have been £19.50 more than the whole ticket from Hatfield cost.

I really need more info from you to give a full answer, basically do you and your wife have any discount cards and what routes are displayed on your's and your wife's tickets to Heathrow?

 

[jon0844]

I thought that might be the case with my ticket, but wondered if the ruling about being able to use an annual zonal ticket with an extension got around it.

The destination is Heathrow Rail, but in the past I'm sure I've had one with the destination Heathrow Express - but I can't see HEX as a destination that I can use anymore. I think the last time I got a discounted ticket, it was marked Heathrow Rail and feared it wouldn't cover me (this was from Paddington) on HEX - but they endorsed it without any concern.

So, my guess is the wife wouldn't be hassled (even if it isn't technically valid as the gripper on board may not realise) but I would because I'd be showing two tickets - or hoping they didn't notice the 'boundary zone 6' and question where the other part of the ticket is.

I know BAA always had odd rules, but I always figured the reason you couldn't use a travelcard was because the rail station was outside of Z6 (as against LUL). If you have a day travelcard, you can't get the extension because it doesn't stop in Z6 (while Heathrow Connect DOES) but with a season, I'd have thought you could do it.

Update: I fished out the tickets;

1) STD ANYTIME DAY S - SGL
£18.10 X (credit card)
GOLD C
HATFIELD (HERTS)
HEATHROW RAIL * +ANY PERMITTED

(Didn't notice anything on the screen when I got this ticket, so I guess any permitted may be the get out?)

2) STD ANYTIME DAY S - SGL
£3.45 X
GOLD C
BOUNDARY ZONE 6
HEATHROW RAIL * NOT LONDON


The Heathrow Express website says;

https://www.heathrowexpress.com/content.asp?SID={EBE18116-680F-4B36-A3D7-91D3CDB6CE65}&pageid=69

9.12 The trains you can use and the times you can travel
Tickets are only valid on Heathrow Express trains if they say so explicitly. Heathrow Express tickets are also valid for travel on Heathrow Connect services.

Tickets, including reduced and discounted tickets and those bought in conjunction with a railcard, may be subject to restrictions as to the dates, days, times within a day and trains on which they can be used. These restrictions are set out in the notices and other publications of the Railway Operators whose trains you are entitled to use.

If you travel on a train with a ticket which is not valid on that train because of such a published restriction, you will have to pay the difference between the price of that ticket and the cheapest ticket available for immediate travel that would have entitled you to travel on that train for the journey shown on your ticket. In the case of some types of ticket, you will have to pay more than this. If so, this will stated in the notices and other publications of the relevant Railway Operators. On Heathrow Express, you may instead have to buy a single ticket for your journey and apply for a refund of the difference as described in Condition 4.1.
9.13 The route you can take
If a particular route or service is specified on your ticket, you can only use that route or service. Otherwise where your ticket allows travel on Heathrow Express and beyond Heathrow Express destinations, subject to any restrictions stated on your ticket, you have the right to travel on any of the following routes:-

if the ticket states that it can be used in a particular zone or zones, on any route within such zone or zones; and
where the ticket entitles you to travel outside a specified zone or zones, on a through train or trains taking the shortest route that can be travelled on regular scheduled passenger services between the stations stated on the ticket; and on any other route or routes that are permitted for your journey (details of which are published in the National Routing Guide: further information on which is available at Train Companies' staffed sales points).

Together, these are known as the "permitted routes" for the journey.

If you make your journey by any other route (except when travelling by a through train), you will be liable to pay the difference between the price of your ticket and the price of the cheapest ticket available for immediate travel that would have entitled you to travel by that route on the service you have used. On our trains it may not be possible to pay the difference (it may only be possible to pay the difference before you start your journey). Therefore you will be charged the full fare and will have to claim a refund on your unused ticket.

I never realised a Heathrow Express ticket was valid on Heathrow Connect, I'm sure I've been told it wasn't! In fact, I'm sure I've been told when standing on the platform - although it might be a case of not wanting people with HEX tickets getting on the slower service accidentally.

 

[glynn80]

Update: I fished out the tickets;

1) STD ANYTIME DAY S - SGL
£18.10 X (credit card)
GOLD C
HATFIELD (HERTS)
HEATHROW RAIL * +ANY PERMITTED

2) STD ANYTIME DAY S - SGL
£3.45 X
GOLD C
BOUNDARY ZONE 6
HEATHROW RAIL * NOT LONDON

I actually think your wife's ticket may be valid.

The full undiscounted SDS from Hatfield to Heathrow Rail is £27.40

The add-on amount for Heathrow Express is £19.50

The SDS fare from Hatfield to London Terminals is £7.90

(Obviously your fares will be Gold Card discounted)

So the add-on fare and the SDS Hatfield to London Terminals equals the fare your wife has paid. So her ticket is definitely valid but yours however isn't.

Perhaps in future you might consider the 724 bus from Hatfield, with journey time of 110 minutes it might be a reasonable alternative to the journey into London, the tube to Paddington and then the train from there.

 

[jon0844]

I downloaded the timetable for the 724, and the time is far too long - but most likely a fair bit cheaper. I've used the bus locally and being an ordinary bus, rather than a coach, I can't see it being that comfortable for a long journey.

I'd say it's good for journeys between, say, Hatfield and Hertford or Harlow - as it skips many stops and is quicker. My feeling when I used it was that this was the case, so we'd probably have to keep our eyes on our bags in the luggage rack because so many people would be boarding and alighting en route to Heathrow! I wonder how many people, except maybe staff as we approached Uxbridge would be going anywhere near the airport.

The other thing is the 724 timetable looked like something produced by a random number generator. There's not one single bus that stops at the same time on the hour - and I'm also doubtful that it would run to time (and could well leave early, meaning a 30-45 minute wait for the next one).

But, hey, I did consider it.

Cheers!