Havant Area Signalling (26-30 October)

[Swedenorer]

Have just had a leaflet through the door announcing a five day line block Chichester, Petersfield and Portsmouth, between 26th - 30th October to replace aging signaling equipment.

Now considering Havant was completely resignalled in an expensive and notoriously wildly over running project in - I think - 2007, and the route to Chichester in 1992, what is life expired?

Is it that the 2007 project was just the wrong thing?

Havant re-signalling works – October 2026 - Network Rail

We’re carrying out essential signalling and infrastructure work in the Havant area during the October half-term.

www.networkrail.co.uk

The work is part of our £120 million Havant re-signalling programme, the next phase of the wider Portsmouth Direct Upgrade.

The Havant Relock & Recontrol project, the main reason for the blockade, will replace ageing signalling and interlocking equipment in the Havant area and modernise the way the railway is controlled.

Control of the railway will move from Havant Area Signalling Centre to our Basingstoke Regional Operational Centre (ROC).

The work includes:

• installing 61 axle counters (equipment that detects when trains enter and leave sections of track)
• installing 23 automatic warning system (AWS) and nine train protection and warning system (TPWS) components, which provide drivers with warnings and help to keep the railway safe
• refurbishing cable routes and installing new fibre and power cabling to provide the connections needed for the signalling system
• installing new signalling equipment and associated infrastructure
• carrying out testing and preparatory work for the wider re-signalling programme
• carrying out track, third rail, switch, level crossing and other infrastructure maintenance while the railway is closed

 

[jfollows]

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/signalling-problems-on-the-portsmouth-direct-line.242522/ has some background.
Siemens made a mess of it and it’s been unreliable ever since.
A parallel with the Ansaldo 2006 implementation for Manchester South which is also being replaced in 2028 because it’s also non-standard and unreliable.

 

[satters]

also that 20 years for electronics means obsolescence, whereas relay equipment will last many more decades, and mechanical even more still, yet there is always now the drive to use electronics despite the shortcomings in short life and failures

 

[Swedenorer]

Thanks for the link and the confirmation of my suspicion - yes I have been clobbered by that unreliability quite a few times. Funnily enough I was told by a railway staff member when the project was in preparation that he thought it was a poor solution. But to only get 19 years out of it...

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks for the link and the confirmation of my suspicion - yes I have been clobbered by that unreliability quite a few times. Funnily enough I was told by a railway staff member when the project was in preparation that he thought it was a poor solution. But to only get 19 years out of it...

They’ve still got a major ROC to fill of course, I wonder how that affects their decision making process…

 

[MarkyT]

There was a Railtrack initiative to broaden the signalling supplier base, which led to Siemens setting up new teams to customise their German Simis W equipment for British use.

The SIMIS architecture of that time was very cable-intensive, concentrating i/o in equipment rooms covering a large area, not unlike former remote relay interlockings.

This contrasts with the more typical modern UK approach, using distributed trackside functional modules (object controllers) in cabinets much closer to the trackside objects themselves. Experience from the Portsmouth scheme led to Siemens losing a major framework contract for further sites in the south east.

Siemens later regrouped and re-entered the UK market by purchasing the rail control business of Invensys, including former Westinghouse product lines (SSI and successors) and a couple of former BR signalling design offices.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 11:03 ==

They’ve still got a major ROC to fill of course, I wonder how that affects their decision making process…

It clearly means control will likely migrate there, but just having the space there waiting wouldn't have hastened the work, which is primarily to address performance and eliminate unusual equipment that is now difficult to support.

SIMIS W was first installed at Bournemouth, then around Portsmouth, but despite ambitious plans for further rollout, the technology was never used elsewhere.

 

[swt_passenger]

It clearly means control will likely migrate there, but just having the space there waiting wouldn't have hastened the work, which is primarily to address performance and eliminate unusual equipment that is now difficult to support. SIMIS W was first installed at Bournemouth, then around Portsmouth, but despite ambitious plans for further rollout, the technology was never used elsewhere.

Is Bournemouth going to need early replacement too?

 

[MarkyT]

Is Bournemouth going to need early replacement too?

Likely yes, eventually, but I doubt the performance pressures are so great. It's a simpler layout, and presumably recovered parts from Portsmouth might become spares for Bournemouth.

 

[The Planner]

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/signalling-problems-on-the-portsmouth-direct-line.242522/ has some background.
Siemens made a mess of it and it’s been unreliable ever since.
A parallel with the Ansaldo 2006 implementation for Manchester South which is also being replaced in 2028 because it’s also non-standard and unreliable.

Next year.

 

[jfollows]

Next year.

Apologies, you were clear in a previous post but I misread it - the Ansaldo stuff goes next year (2027) whereas unrelated things like Crewe Coal Yard and Winsford remain until 2028.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Have just had a leaflet through the door announcing a five day line block Chi, Pfield, Pompey 26th - 30th October to replace aging signaling equipment

Thanks for the insight. We are just round the corner from Bedhampton station, yet no leaflet through our door. I'll get myself very familiar with RRB timings...

 

[Swedenorer]

Bedhampton Crossing closing for the week too...

Given the time and cost over-runs of the 2007 scheme I wonder what the return on that investment was - if any.

 

[MadMac]

Siemens showed up at my L.A. office hawking their wares while the Portsmouth debacle was in full swing. They realised the game was up when I mentioned that I understood they were having some issues there…..