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GTR Diagrams

Intercity_225

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Have GTR released their diagrams yet? I know that they became public at 2am this morning and other operators released theirs within 12 hours or so. I may be an idiot and they may have already been released, but if they haven't does anyone know when they will be? Cheers :)
 
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nesw

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They have added a freedom of information page but there's no documents or unit diagrams uploaded. There's a few requests in on What Do They Know, so they should be available soon.
 

Mattplans

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I don't imagine they'll be in a hurry but it'll be here https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/thameslink_drivers_diagrams_brig


And FOI for DfTO is now centralised so it's the same team working for all the tocs. That's if they don't release it ahead of the curve so they aren't bombarded with this request. It'll be interesting to see some of the diagrams on the Rainham and Catford routes


edit * seems this person has only requested for "services serving Brighton"
 

nesw

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It's very unlikely they'll make driver's diagrams available as previous requests for this information for other train operators had been refused. Unit diagrams shouldn't be an issue unless it's TfL where they believe it's a security issue.
 

Intercity_225

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Cheers all.

It's very unlikely they'll make driver's diagrams available as previous requests for this information for other train operators had been refused. Unit diagrams shouldn't be an issue unless it's TfL where they believe it's a security issue.
Sorry, I meant unit diagrams. :)
 

800002

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They've released the driver diagrams for the May Timetable, as requested, except it's for all depots.
 

bramling

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They've released the driver diagrams for the May Timetable, as requested, except it's for all depots.

Quite surprised they have released these. Sobering reading just how complex they are, though we already knew this. It’s no wonder their network is completely unmanageable during disruption, with so many crew reliefs all over the place it will be all but impossible to keep track and avoid having trains blocking lines with no relief. Easy to see why they just stick everything away and declare the service trashed for the day.
 

Vexed

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Where can I find this?
The FOI request in post #3

They've released the driver diagrams for the May Timetable, as requested, except it's for all depots.
It's just Thameslink depots with route knowledge including Brighton. From the response:
Some of the diagrams included may not operate services to Brighton, for ease we have included all depots that have route knowledge, opposed to searching through the individual diagrams that go to Brighton.
 

nesw

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The Diagrams and Carriage Working Notices are now available on the FOI page. (Scroll down)
gtrailway.com/freedom-of-information/
 

TransportHub

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whoosh

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The headcounts do not differentiate full time drivers and part time, or job share drivers. Just the total number of people employed in a driver role.
 

L3sterSantos

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I hope you like the route maps, I've spent many hours designing and reworking them! It's not often you can do colouring in as legitimate, officially sanctioned work!
Is this your work? it is very nice and detailed. :) You've been able to succintly represent a large area of influence quite well! I thought initially it might have been designed using a program where all the route maps were entered into, and then a user was able to select each block signed by a depot. Like "Core" "London Bridge 3-6" "Elephant" etc which then turns the block red.
 

Eloise

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What do people use these diagrams for? I am genuinely curious being the recipient of FOI requests from my FOI team and having to supply things such as diagrams.
 

bramling

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What do people use these diagrams for? I am genuinely curious being the recipient of FOI requests from my FOI team and having to supply things such as diagrams.

If you mean the unit diagrams, I’d imagine they are very useful to people for seeing what type (and also length) of train is going to work particular services.

There’s no doubt all manner of spin-offs from this that enthusiasts will use as well, but the above is the main practical reason for the wider population.
 

TransportHub

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Is this your work? it is very nice and detailed. :) You've been able to succintly represent a large area of influence quite well! I thought initially it might have been designed using a program where all the route maps were entered into, and then a user was able to select each block signed by a depot. Like "Core" "London Bridge 3-6" "Elephant" etc which then turns the block red.
Yeah making and making them is part of the day job. The Southern ones have recently had a big makeover so if anyone FOIs them you can see. Believe it or not they are just PowerPoint slides that have been PDFed! No high tech just coloured lines!
 

hash2806

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Yeah making and making them is part of the day job. The Southern ones have recently had a big makeover so if anyone FOIs them you can see. Believe it or not they are just PowerPoint slides that have been PDFed! No high tech just coloured lines!
Nice work, it's extremely detailed. I could be way off the mark here, but were Ashford drivers meant to be signing the Maidstone East - Cambridge service which was planned?
Happy to be corrected on this :D
 

Mattplans

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Looks like GTR are now rejecting FOI requests related to disclosing voice announcement files:

We have processed your request under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act
2000 (FOIA) and we can confirm that we partially hold this information.
Section 43(2) of the FOIA protects information in circumstances where disclosing it
would cause commercial prejudice to any party. In this instance, we believe the
exemption is engaged because the release of on board audio voice announcement
files would prejudice the interests of the voice artists Julie Berry and Matt Streeton,
and supplier Alstom.

Third parties may provide on board audio voice announcements to us for specific
limited purposes and enter into agreements on that basis, for example to support
service delivery, manage stations, provide customer systems or carry out contracted
works. Releasing the requested information into the public domain through FOIA
would harm the voice artists ability to negotiate future commercial work and
releasing files procured from Alstom would reveal valuable system design
information, which give Alstom a competitive advantage.
Section 43(2) is a qualified exemption and subject to a public interest test. We have
set out considerations of the public interest arguments for and against disclosure
below.

There is always a presumption in favour of disclosure. This is because publishing
information under the Act increases transparency and openness, and promotes
public sector accountability. However, voice announcements do not provide an
insight into how we manage public funds or make us more accountable. The voice
announcements are of private interest to a limited number of people and their
disclosure serves no wider public benefit.

Set against disclosure of the information in question is the fact that upon consultation
with the relevant third parties, the voice artists and Alstom, they have requested that
they are not disclosed. Voice artists have identified that other individuals are able to
profit from having access to audio files and we consider there is risk through AI and
voice cloning to cause further potential commercial harm to voice artists. Alstom
have confirmed that disclosure could cause significant material loss and prejudice
their competitive position, competitors could leverage insights to improve their own
position.

It should not be the case that individuals or private organisations are disadvantaged
by doing business with the public sector, and it is in the public interest for suppliers
and partners to be able to continue supporting passenger services efficiently and
effectively.

We would also note the public interest in GTR maintaining strong relationships with
suppliers, service providers, contractors and other commercial partners. The
disclosure of such information against the wishes of the voice artists and Alstom
could reduce our ability to secure value for money, obtain candid commercial
engagement, or procure services on the best available terms. It is in the public
interest for us not to harm these relationships by disclosing information in
circumstances where it is inappropriate to do so.

We are ultimately of the view that this information should be withheld under section
43(2)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

as per whatdotheyknow
 

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