GWR investigation for incorrect railcard

[disaccociating]

on the 29th of august i was stopped at reading on the exit coming from wokingham by GRW, my ticket was with a 16-17 saver, which i’m not eligible for as im 18 now and it expired in november.

I have the 16-25 saver. they stopped me for having the incorrect railcard and i told them i clicked it by mistake, he then told me to speak to his colleague and that he would ask me some questions. he said what id done could result in court and asked me for all my details which i gave to him he then also checked my history on my trainline app and had seen that the day before yesterday I had also used the 16-17 saver and he took a picture, i had done this 4 times since i was previously in late july received a fare penalty by SWR on the train for using the 16-17 saver when it was expired.

I paid £66 as i did it before 14 days. i’m now terrified as it is the second time i have done this and he said there will be an investigation, there have been a lot of times i’ve done this after november i calculated it will be around £360 as i doubled it. i have also been short faring or donutting for around 2 years which was really stupid but i didn’t know it was a crime i was trying to save money because it was alot cheaper to do so, im currently unemployed and my parents are having a really hard time so i couldn’t ask for money for travel which i would do for college. i’m 18 and about to move out and go to university im really terrified and embarrassed about what i have done and i know it’s bad as i didn’t learn from the first penalty fare but i had only done it 4 times after as i taking a short journey which i know isnt worth it now.

when GRW officer asked me questions i said yes to everything, he asked if when challenged for my ticket i bought it with 16-25 which i did do when i saw the GRW people standing by the barriers which now i also know is a crime as u have to buy the ticket before the train leaves. he also asked if i knew that i was trying to get a cheaper deal when i know it was invalid railcard and i said yes he phrased it differently. he recorded me with his body camera i forgot the rest of the questions but he said this could end up in court if u dont respond to the letter that i will receive. he read me out my laws like what the police say before arrest which really stressed me out and i’m so scared it could go straight to court withought an out of court settlement i’m happy to pay any sum or fine but i really don’t want a criminal record as im only 18 and extremely worried about this appearing on my DBS and prevent me from getting a job in the future.

I don’t know how to prepare for the letter and if it will come in the post or by email. i also want to add about a month or two ago i used to use the GRW delay repay for my monthly tickets on cancelled train even when i hadn’t taken the train that day from wokingham to farnborough im scared they will see this too this was really stupid of me and i’m completely ashamed of what i have done to save money.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

on the 29th of august i was stopped at reading on the exit coming from wokingham by GRW, my ticket was with a 16-17 saver, which i’m not eligible for as im 18 now and it expired in november.

I have the 16-25 saver. they stopped me for having the incorrect railcard and i told them i clicked it by mistake, he then told me to speak to his colleague and that he would ask me some questions. he said what id done could result in court and asked me for all my details which i gave to him he then also checked my history on my trainline app and had seen that the day before yesterday I had also used the 16-17 saver and he took a picture, i had done this 4 times since i was previously in late july received a fare penalty by SWR on the train for using the 16-17 saver when it was expired.

I paid £66 as i did it before 14 days. i’m now terrified as it is the second time i have done this and he said there will be an investigation, there have been a lot of times i’ve done this after november i calculated it will be around £360 as i doubled it. i have also been short faring or donutting for around 2 years which was really stupid but i didn’t know it was a crime i was trying to save money because it was alot cheaper to do so, im currently unemployed and my parents are having a really hard time so i couldn’t ask for money for travel which i would do for college. i’m 18 and about to move out and go to university im really terrified and embarrassed about what i have done and i know it’s bad as i didn’t learn from the first penalty fare but i had only done it 4 times after as i taking a short journey which i know isnt worth it now.

when GRW officer asked me questions i said yes to everything, he asked if when challenged for my ticket i bought it with 16-25 which i did do when i saw the GRW people standing by the barriers which now i also know is a crime as u have to buy the ticket before the train leaves. he also asked if i knew that i was trying to get a cheaper deal when i know it was invalid railcard and i said yes he phrased it differently. he recorded me with his body camera i forgot the rest of the questions but he said this could end up in court if u dont respond to the letter that i will receive. he read me out my laws like what the police say before arrest which really stressed me out and i’m so scared it could go straight to court withought an out of court settlement i’m happy to pay any sum or fine but i really don’t want a criminal record as im only 18 and extremely worried about this appearing on my DBS and prevent me from getting a job in the future.

I don’t know how to prepare for the letter and if it will come in the post or by email. i also want to add about a month or two ago i used to use the GRW delay repay for my monthly tickets on cancelled train even when i hadn’t taken the train that day from wokingham to farnborough im scared they will see this too this was really stupid of me and i’m completely ashamed of what i have done to save money.

Welcome to the forum. You might find it worth looking at GWR's revenue protection policy at https://www.gwr.com/-/media/gwr-sc-...gwr-revenue-protection-policy-august-2026.pdf. In particular have a look at page 7

If you systematically or persistently travel without a ticket or without a valid ticket
We will consider this to be a fraud matter and we will instigate a criminal investigation into
your actions. You could end up in court as a result.

but also pages 12 and 13

We’ll do our best to settle out of court.
Prosecution can have serious consequences on your personal and professional life. So, if you
don’t pay your fare, we will do everything we can to avoid taking you to court.
We will send you an offer to settle out of court, asking you to pay an amount to cover your
fare and our costs.
(...)

Deciding to go to court
Prosecution is normally a last resort and we look at every case individually. But there may
be times when we prosecute without trying to settle out of court first. This would usually be
when an individual has been reported to our Revenue Recovery Team before.
We never take our decision to prosecute lightly. We will only go ahead if there is a high
chance of a conviction and it is in the best interests of justice.

Regular readers will note that this is a new version of GWR's policy, and I would say to the OP that it seems rather tougher than before: in the circumstances GWR may prosecute. So it's even more important to keep an eye out for any incoming letters and emails from GWR.

<Edited to add> actually, now I compare to the 2023 wording, all that has changed is that 'If you systematically or persistently travel without a ticket or without a valid ticket' is now in bold - and I think it was a typo in the 2023 version that it wasn't. So GWR's policy seems to be unchanged.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Hello @disaccociating I'll add to Fawkes Cat's excellent wise advce, to gain yourself an understanding of the fraud policy: all you can do is wait for a letter to arrive, as you won't know what investigations or action will be proposed against you.

You admit to two years of systematic fare-evasion; and you admit to continuing your fare-evasion even after receiving a Penalty Fare Notice in late-July and until you were caught a second time, on 29-August.

At this stage, none of us can second-guess when or if you receive a follow-up letter.
By all means come back to this thread once you receive a correspondence about this.

 

[SuspectUsual]

I don’t know how to prepare for the letter

I think there are three things you can do before they get in touch:

1 - stop using a discount you're not entitled to

2 - start saving - if you cooperate you'll probably get offered an out of court settlement, but it will cost you

3 - don't be tempted to delete whatever account you've been using to buy your tickets - it looks suspicious, the train company will still be able to see all the data from their end anyway, and you'll lose access to it so might be at a disadvantage

 

[disaccociating]

I think there are three things you can do before they get in touch:

1 - stop using a discount you're not entitled to

2 - start saving - if you cooperate you'll probably get offered an out of court settlement, but it will cost you

3 - don't be tempted to delete whatever account you've been using to buy your tickets - it looks suspicious, the train company will still be able to see all the data from their end anyway, and you'll lose access to it so might be at a disadvantage

thank you

yes i have stopped using the discount i’m not entitled too

do you know how likely it will be an out of court settlement?

i am saving currently and receive sfe in late september so i will be able to pay the sum

 

[SuspectUsual]

do you know how likely it will be an out of court settlement?

None of us know because we're not employed by GWR, but based on what we've seen before and their published policy (@Fawkes Cat linked to it in post #2) I'd say you have a very good chance as long as you cooperate with them

 

[disaccociating]

None of us know because we're not employed by GWR, but based on what we've seen before and their published policy (@Fawkes Cat linked to it in post #2) I'd say you have a very good chance as long as you cooperate with them

thank you so much, do you know how much i could be charged for short faring? i’m trying to calculate the highest possible fee they could charge me to save that money for when i receive a letter. also will it be with a sum to pay straight away or will they state what they have investigated and ask for an explanation first

 

[Fawkes Cat]

thank you so much, do you know how much i could be charged for short faring? i’m trying to calculate the highest possible fee they could charge me to save that money for when i receive a letter. also will it be with a sum to pay straight away or will they state what they have investigated and ask for an explanation first

I think that GWR's usual approach is to
- work out what you should have paid if you had bought Anytime singles for all the journeys you made
- take off what you did pay (n.b. I am not 100% sure that they are this generous - I am open to correction)
- add an admin fee of maybe £200 or so.

I also think that it varies from case to case as to whether they are prepared to enter into discussions. On the one hand, they want to get things right: on the other hand, they also want to get paid.

 

[SECR 65]

I would suggest, if you want to be completely certain you have the absolute possible maximum they could charge you, then the full undiscounted anytime single fare for each journey undertaken without a valid ticket, plus maybe up to £250 admin fee. Hopefully, as @Fawkes Cat suggests, off the top of my head GWR often give credit for fares already paid, so you can hope they will do this.

 

[disaccociating]

I would suggest, if you want to be completely certain you have the absolute possible maximum they could charge you, then the full undiscounted anytime single fare for each journey undertaken without a valid ticket, plus maybe up to £250 admin fee. Hopefully, as @Fawkes Cat suggests, off the top of my head GWR often give credit for fares already paid, so you can hope they will do this.

thank you so much. also i did have a 16-17 railcard for two years that expired in november will they know about this? because he didn’t ask to see it so i’m worried they will charge me for using 16-17 saver when it was actually valid before i turned 18.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

thank you so much. also i did have a 16-17 railcard for two years that expired in november will they know about this? because he didn’t ask to see it so i’m worried they will charge me for using 16-17 saver when it was actually valid before i turned 18.

Not necessarily. Can you, however, satisfactorily prove to GWR that you held a valid railcard, at least up until November 2025?

 

[disaccociating]

Not necessarily. Can you, however, satisfactorily prove to GWR that you held a valid railcard, at least up until November 2025?

yes i deleted it from my railcard app but i have the email confirmation that it was expired.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Monday at 12:07 ==

Not necessarily. Can you, however, satisfactorily prove to GWR that you held a valid railcard, at least up until November 2025?

should i send them it now or wait for the letter?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

should i send them it now or wait for the letter?

As @Sun Chariot has already mentioned upthread, possibly best to wait for the letter that GWR are likely to send you in due course. Presume you've not provided them with a moody address?

 

[disaccociating]

As @Sun Chariot has mentioned upthread, possibly best to wait for the letter that GWR are likely to send in due course. Presume you've not provided them with a moody address?

no, i gave my real address but i am moving out in a week to student accommodation

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Monday at 12:19 ==

I would suggest, if you want to be completely certain you have the absolute possible maximum they could charge you, then the full undiscounted anytime single fare for each journey undertaken without a valid ticket, plus maybe up to £250 admin fee. Hopefully, as @Fawkes Cat suggests, off the top of my head GWR often give credit for fares already paid, so you can hope they will do this.

is the £250 admin fee per ticket or overall?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

no, i gave my real address but i am moving out in a week to student accommodation

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Monday at 12:19 ==


is the £250 admin fee per ticket or overall?

Will you still have access to your current address? For example, is it your parents' address? If so, just ask them to forward any letters to you.

And the admin fee is for the whole thing, not per ticket.

 

[WesternLancer]

Will you still have access to your current address? For example, is it your parents' address? If so, just ask them to forward any letters to you.

Or op should ask eg parents to open them and scan and send you the contents if you have trusted them with explaining what’s going on.
Halls of residence postal receiving information can be a bit erratic for letters I suspect, unless they are tracked postage.