• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Group Save 4 to Group Save 3?

Status
Not open for further replies.

bnm

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2009
Messages
4,992
I've got Group Save tickets for 4 of us only to have one person drop out after I made the booking.

I'm wondering if there is any sort of alteration that can be made to the Group Save 4 to allow us to travel as 3. The total fare paid would be nearly identical with Group Save 3 working out slightly cheaper due to the way the fares system calculates the discount.

Is it possible to excess or zero excess?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
78,597
Location
Yorkshire
I'm not sure, while it is understandable that the 4 tickets need to be kept together, do they really become invalid due to someone dropping out due to illness or whatever? I would have thought that as long as all 4 tickets are together there should be no problem. However I cannot find any documentation that conclusively states either way (other than the standard stuff, the group must stay together, which really isn't conclusive).
 

wintonian

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2010
Messages
4,889
Location
Hampshire
there is allways the refund ticket option (£10 admin fee) and buy GPS3 tickets insted.
 

RJ

Established Member
Joined
25 Jun 2005
Messages
8,831
Location
Back office
Yes, insufficient number of passengers travelling invalidates the tickets and the whole group will no longer be eligible for the discount. As with any invalid ticket, valid ones would need purchased and if unused, the originals may be refundable.
 

bnm

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2009
Messages
4,992
I feared as much. Person who dropped out is not ill, just a pain in the butt.

Refund option it is. But that is likely to cost me £20 in Admin fees. Split tickets you see. :roll::-x

Gonna leave the refund option till the day of travel. Never know, the first train might be delayed, allowing us to 'decide not to travel' (at least on the original tickets!) and claim a full refund.
 

reb0118

Established Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
28 Jan 2010
Messages
3,583
Location
Bo'ness, West Lothian
I'll confirm at work tomorrow but I think ScotRails policy is only to excess single travellers with groupsaves. ie passengers travelling alone.

Theory = as the groupsave is based on the price of 2x CDR then four passengers together have paid the correct fare, three passengers together have paid the same, as have two. It is only when one passenger alone is traveling on a groupsave that the railway encounters a loss so to speak as that passengers ticket would be for 2/3 or 1/2 of the fare depending on GS3 or GS4.

We are instructed to excess to the CDR if appropriate.

Now with the new style Group Saves being issued on ONE ticket then the group obviously must stick together. However, again in theory any number from one to four can travel as in all cases they have paid the correct fare or indeed a higher fare than required.
 
Last edited:

LexyBoy

Established Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
4,478
Location
North of the rivers
This happened to me a while ago- one of our party had unexpectedly to travel back early leaving 2 with GPS-3 tickets. In the end we travelled with someone on an Advance and they used the extra Groupsave ticket as far as our stop, so that doesn't help you much!

It seems reasonable that as long as you show all tickets it should be ok, but by my reading of the T&Cs the specified number of people must travel. I think a lot of guards would be fine with it if you explained, but some not- if you can ask before boarding it's worth a go.

Seems a bit strange that the rules make it more attractive to ask round at the station to see if anyone wants a free ride- thus losing income from their ticket- than to simply not use the 4th ticket!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'll confirm at work tomorrow but I think ScotRails policy is only to excess single travellers with groupsaves. ie passengers travelling alone.

Theory = as the groupsave is based on the price of 2x CDR then four passengers together have paid the correct fare, three passengers together have paid the same, as have two. It is only when one passenger alone is traveling on a groupsave that the railway encounters a loss so to speak as that passengers ticket would be for 1/3 o 1/4 of the fare depending on GS3 or GS4.

We are instructed to excess to the CDR if appropriate.

Now with the new style Group Saves being issued on ONE ticket then the group obviously must stick together. However, again in theory any number from one to four can travel as in all cases they have paid the correct fare or indeed a higher fare than required.

This is how it should work! I've always thought groupsave tickets should be on a single ticket. Yes, it won't work the barriers, but barriers don't stop tickets being used separately!

I would expect seperated groupsave tickets to be treated like a missing railcard though, full open single sold. Perhaps excess at a ticket office before travel.
 

RJ

Established Member
Joined
25 Jun 2005
Messages
8,831
Location
Back office
This happened to me a while ago- one of our party had unexpectedly to travel back early leaving 2 with GPS-3 tickets. In the end we travelled with someone on an Advance and they used the extra Groupsave ticket as far as our stop, so that doesn't help you much!

It seems reasonable that as long as you show all tickets it should be ok, but by my reading of the T&Cs the specified number of people must travel. I think a lot of guards would be fine with it if you explained, but some not- if you can ask before boarding it's worth a go.

Seems a bit strange that the rules make it more attractive to ask round at the station to see if anyone wants a free ride- thus losing income from their ticket- than to simply not use the 4th ticket!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


This is how it should work! I've always thought groupsave tickets should be on a single ticket. Yes, it won't work the barriers, but barriers don't stop tickets being used separately!

I would expect seperated groupsave tickets to be treated like a missing railcard though, full open single sold. Perhaps excess at a ticket office before travel.


Yes they do, barriers are supposed to reject all Groupsave tickets. Not many people have the mindset of using Groupsave in that way. I've only seen it happen once and that was only because a member of staff suggested it. I think less money is lost through people doing that than through two or three people buying valid tickets. That said, tickets are not transferrable so is done at the holder's risk.

Intrinsically there is not a lot of difference between GS tickets and railcard discounted ones, the criteria must be met for the discount to be valid.
 

bnm

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2009
Messages
4,992
The second part of our split journey is I hope not on a single ticket. It is inclusive of Travelcard!
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
78,597
Location
Yorkshire
reb0118 - thanks for that, that sure sounds like common sense!

RJ - does that same common sense (excessing individuals but not groups as described by reb0118) apply on LM?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top