Greenford Branch idea

[MatthewRead]

The latest issue of RAIL has got an letter about the GWR Greenford branch from West Ealing to become a branch of the London Underground Central line.
Whats' your views on this?

 

[Nippy]

Can't see that happening. Was it the April 1st issue?

 

[59CosG95]

To me, it'll only really be useful if they extend the Ealing Broadway branch towards West Ealing, parallel to the GWML, and I dread to think of the civils works and consultation that'll entail!

 

[snowball]

I no longer have the relevant page of my copy but if I remember correctly it's only a reader saying it would be a good idea.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

To me, it'll only really be useful if they extend the Ealing Broadway branch towards West Ealing, parallel to the GWML, and I dread to think of the civils works and consultation that'll entail!

Would fit in nicely with the 'plan' trotted out by Ealing councillors once in a while which is to extend the Central Line to Southall.

 

[Nippy]

It isn't though. You'd need to faff about mixing freight etc.

 

[Mag_seven]

I've often wondered about the practicality/cost of extending the central line at Ealing Broadway to Greenford.

 

[The Planner]

It isn't though. You'd need to faff about mixing freight etc.

This, the traffic to Calvert isn't going to disappear.

 

[Nippy]

I suppose that could go via Oxford and Bicester in time, but extending the Ealing line branch into the Greenford branch (a bit like the other end of the line) or going to Southall isn't going to happen any time soon. There is just too much development in the way.

 

[pdeaves]

I suppose that [freight] could go via Oxford and Bicester in time

The Great Western main line is already struggling for capacity, so sending freight 'some other way' (e.g. via Greenford) is a good way of helping.

 

[Busaholic]

Two ways to get to Hainault to be rivalled by two ways to Greenford on Central. I'd say go ahead with the idea, as long as Ealing Borough council tax is increased by 10% per household in perpetuity to help pay for it.

 

[Railguy1]

In my opinion, it would be better for Chiltern Railways to take over the route, terminating at Old Oak Common. This would alleviate the bottleneck of only having one terminus at Marylebone. They could use two paths from the Heathrow Express route*, once its contract expires, and the reminder of the termini space at Old Oak Common used for trains going via the New North Main Line. The other paths from Heathrow Express could be moved on Crossrail.

*Politics aside.

 

[Nippy]

Two main line paths that HEX use? And if adding it on to say, the Wycombe service, for a Wycombe to OOC service via Drayton Green, you need to rebuild the main platforms at Greenford and would need to extend South Greenford, Castle Bar Park and Drayton Green platforms.

Probably best left as it is.

 

[Nippy]

The Great Western main line is already struggling for capacity, so sending freight 'some other way' (e.g. via Greenford) is a good way of helping.

I fully agree.

 

[swt_passenger]

The latest issue of RAIL has got an letter about the GWR Greenford branch from West Ealing to become a branch of the London Underground Central line.
Whats' your views on this?

It's hardly an original idea, it has been mentioned a few times and probably in thes forums too, ever since the decision was made to separate the branch service because of Crossrail.

Some of the proposals, such as extending the Central Line through Ealing Broadway, ignore the point that if widening the overall formation was that straightforward, then they could have 6 tracked the GW anyway, and potentially kept the existing service...

 

[jopsuk]

It's rather crayon-y, yet no ambition enough. Not nearly!

To go full on crayons:
Send the District line to Uxbridge. Yes, so that an Uxbridge-Upminster service can run :P ahem. Possibly with S8 (oh, simply upgrade all the stations to cope, obviously). Means only S-Stock at Uxbridge at any rate
from Acton Town to Hanger Lane junction, add an extra pair of tracks, with Tube Stock height platforms at Ealing Common. This seperates completely the District and Picadilly line, indeed the Sub Surface and the Tube.

Now, run the Picadilly through Ealing Broadway and onto the Greenford Branch, joining the Central line at Greenford.

At Ruislip Depot, take a route round the back of the depot and run a branch alongside the Met to Ickenham, to terminate for interchange (solving the Rusilip interchange problem)

More connections, level boarding for all. What's not to love? Apart from the whole freight issue, but then that's what the freight tracks of the Outer London Orbital Railway (at about the M25) are for, obviously.

(oh, and the fully underground re-routing of the Bakerloo from Queens Park to Hillingdon as part of the Watford DC to East London Line link up)

 

[swt_passenger]

In my opinion, it would be better for Chiltern Railways to take over the route, terminating at Old Oak Common. This would alleviate the bottleneck of only having one terminus at Marylebone. They could use two paths from the Heathrow Express route*, once its contract expires, and the reminder of the termini space at Old Oak Common used for trains going via the New North Main Line. The other paths from Heathrow Express could be moved on Crossrail.
.

The whole point of splitting the branch service off at West Ealing was to avoid junction conflicts between down branch and up Crossrail at West Ealing. Transferring the service to Chiltern and trying to run along the GW reliefs just reintroduces those conflicts, so is a non starter.

There is a plan in one of the recent route studies to run off Chiltern to OOC, but it doesn't include the Greenford branch route.

 

[MatthewRead]

Would fit in nicely with the 'plan' trotted out by Ealing councillors once in a while which is to extend the Central Line to Southall.

They were going to extend the Central line to Denham back in 1945 but this has since been dropped it's just like the reinstatement of passenger trains on the Brentford Branch which everyone's suddenly gone tight lipped about!

 

[mr_jrt]

Some of the proposals, such as extending the Central Line through Ealing Broadway, ignore the point that if widening the overall formation was that straightforward, then they could have 6 tracked the GW anyway, and potentially kept the existing service...

The advantage of the Central Line is that it's a tube, so having it dive down after West Acton to new underground platforms at Ealing Broadway and West Ealing then rising back up would be a bit cheaper than a mainline tunnel, abet probably a poor compromise as a full-NR-sized tunnel would have much more flexible usage options in the longer term.

 

[swt_passenger]

The advantage of the Central Line is that it's a tube, so having it dive down after West Acton to new underground platforms at Ealing Broadway and West Ealing then rising back up would be a bit cheaper than a mainline tunnel, abet probably a poor compromise as a full-NR-sized tunnel would have much more flexible usage options in the longer term.

Well sure, but I didn't think anyone had really emphasised putting the Central Line back in a tunnel. If you do that then I agree almost anything could be possible, even if not exactly an economic solution...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is there actually a need for it at all? Should it close?

 

[Ianno87]

Is there actually a need for it at all? Should it close?

The current half hourly service doesn't exactly stimulate demand.

Best chance for the line, in my view, would be a 4tph Greenford-West Ealing service using two units, connecting with Elizabeth Line services every 15 minutes. And draw the line on the tube map.

Perhaps tie in with some redevelopment around some of the (frankly) under-utilised current stations (Castle Bar Park and South Greenford are particularly poorly used). Perhaps even review the current station locations to maximise their potential catchment areas.

 

[Ianno87]

I fully agree.

What freight would actually be divertable though?

Jumbo aggregate stuff from the Mendips to Acton Yard can't easily* access the north end of the Chiltern route to travel via Greenford, and would still have to be routed via West Ealing (flat junction) and Ealing Broadway to access Acton Yard.

Ditto intermodal stuff from Southampton/Wentloog via the North London Line.

*You're talking Didcot-Oxford-Bicester Village-High Wycombe-South Ruislip-Greenford. And then the Chiltern Route (and Oxford corridor) doesn't exactly have oodles of spare freight paths either.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Had the West London Tram system gone ahead it could have been incorporated as a spur from West Ealing to Greenford and maybe extended to Ruislip.