GA Revenue Protection Procedure

[dtch72]

Hope someone can help me!
This evening I tagged my oystercard to get on the train in Central London to travel to Shenfield, on the edge of Zone 6. However, I fell asleep and so missed the station. I got off when I woke up- but as i exited the station there were greater Anglia revenue protection officers.
I admitted my mistake- but the officer, who didnt give me his name, was somewhat officious and wouldn't accept what I was saying. He proceeded to 'caution' me for fare evasion and said he would be passing this on to BTP to prosecute me.
He asked me somewhat leading questions- such as "did I intend to fare evade?", which clearly I didnt. He also asked me many questions about my travel into London. Normally I drive, or get a lift (as I did this morning) so probably only use the train maybe once a week... Obviously I answered that I didnt intend to evade the fare- however, his view was that I did! He also said that the train I was on didn't even stop at Shenfield, but I wasnt aware of this and I don't know how he knew what train I was on. I ran up the stairs at Stratford and got on the train at Platform 10 as I always do, that always stops at Shenfield.
For obvious reasons I do not want this to go to court and to get a prosecution and a criminal record- I don't want to take the risk. Is there anything I can do, perhaps even admit that an error was made and pay a fine, etc? What happends next, what do GA normally do and will this really be passed to BTP for a prosecution?

 

[bb21]

Where were you stopped?

When you said you "exited the station" did you mean you attempted to leave the station via a gateline? If so, why did you not proceed to the correct platform to get back to Shenfield?

Not all trains from Stratford stop at Shenfield, especially in the peaks, but I guess you know now.

 

[gray1404]

Please provide details of the station you were stopped at and also which station you boarded the train at in central London.

It is not the norm for a train company to pass details onto the police, they normally handle the case themselves.

 

[MikeWh]

Hope someone can help me!
This evening I tagged my oystercard to get on the train in Central London to travel to Shenfield, on the edge of Zone 6. However, I fell asleep and so missed the station.

First things first, Shenfield is not on the edge of zone 6. It is actually beyond the zones completely. It does accept Oyster, but you might give some people the wrong impression if you talk about zone 6.

Next, Stratford can hardly be described as Central London. Did you enter at a zone 1 Underground station and change at Stratford? You say that you travel by train occasionally, do you have Oyster history for similar journeys from Central London to Shenfield? This may give credence to your assertion that you didn't intend to evade the fare.

Where were you stopped? And did you return to Shenfield afterwards?

 

[dtch72]

Thanks all. I tap in at my local dlr station then travel to Stratford. I awoke at Hatfield Peverel and so got off the train there. The revenue protectors were on the platform awaiting people getting off the train. I explained that I just needed to get to the other platform to return to shenfield but they wouldn't accept this.
On the Oyster card there would be two journeys in recent weeks where it showed I got off at shenfield- though the rpi scanned my card yet told me there was no evidence of this. I know this is incorrect.
The rpi refused to give me his name. On asking he showed me his badge but not any name identification though I did see a number. I tried to take a photo of him but he blocked my phone and made me delete the picture.
After they had finished I actually exited the station as I was very shaken so didn't return to shenfield and got my partner to pick me up by car instead.
He kept saying he would be reporting me to BTP in the morning. I felt intimidated by him and his colleagues. So what happens next, should I try to ring GA customer services this morning. Obviously I said that I didn't travel fraudulently- but should I just contact them and admit an error and offer to pay the fare? At no time yesterday was this suggested- from what I could hear when they had stopped other people they were not offering penalty fare notices as an option at all.

 

[MikeWh]

Thanks all. I tap in at my local dlr station then travel to Stratford. I awoke at Hatfield Peverel and so got off the train there. The revenue protectors were on the platform awaiting people getting off the train. I explained that I just needed to get to the other platform to return to shenfield but they wouldn't accept this.
On the Oyster card there would be two journeys in recent weeks where it showed I got off at shenfield- though the rpi scanned my card yet told me there was no evidence of this. I know this is incorrect.
The rpi refused to give me his name. On asking he showed me his badge but not any name identification though I did see a number. I tried to take a photo of him but he blocked my phone and made me delete the picture.
After they had finished I actually exited the station as I was very shaken so didn't return to shenfield and got my partner to pick me up by car instead.
He kept saying he would be reporting me to BTP in the morning. I felt intimidated by him and his colleagues. So what happens next, should I try to ring GA customer services this morning. Obviously I said that I didn't travel fraudulently- but should I just contact them and admit an error and offer to pay the fare? At no time yesterday was this suggested- from what I could hear when they had stopped other people they were not offering penalty fare notices as an option at all.

Right, first of all, don't panic. If he does report you it will be to GA prosecutions, not the BTP. They will take a while to write to you but when they do it will be to ask for your side of the story. It will also say that they intend to prosecute you, but whether they do depends on what you say when you respond.

Before I continue, I am advising on the basis that everything you have said is accurate. There are good reasons why they don't believe your story, but if it is genuine then you ought to be able to sort it out with the prosecutions department. If you are not telling the truth then some or all of what I am saying will be of little or no help.

It would appear that you got on the wrong train. Evening services from Stratford to Hatfield Peveral either call at Chelmsford only or run non-stop to Hatfield Peveral. This is why the RPI said the train hadn't called at Shenfield - none of them do. If you realised your mistake and got off at the first opportunity then it would have been better to have told the truth, though you won't be the first person to panic when meeting revenue teams. If the train had stopped at Chelmsford but you were asleep then fine. It may be an idea to work out which train you were on and write down your recollections of exactly what happened now, so that when the letter eventually arrives you can remember.

In the meantime, you need to get a copy of your journey history on Oyster. If you have an online account then you can just print it off; if you don't then call the helpdesk and ask them to email you a statement. You want the whole of the last 8 weeks. You want as many LR station> to Shenfield journeys as possible, and you want it to show the incomplete charge raised at the DLR station which wasn't cleared as you never ended the journey. You can also ask the helpdesk to resolve that journey.

Greater Anglia suffer an awful lot of fare evasion on this route. Most of the DLR is ungated and I'm guessing stations like Hatfield Peveral are also ungated. 99% of people will be trying it on, and they'll all use excuses like falling asleep. If you genuinely took the wrong train in error and/or fell asleep then they have treated you rather harshly, but you will need to show that you usually travel only to Shenfield. It would have been better if you'd taken the train back to Shenfield as that would further back up your story.

As I hinted earlier, only you know what really happened. If you actually live near Hatfield Peveral and often chance not being checked then there is little anyone here can suggest to get you off. GA may have CCTV from several days and if that puts you at Hatfield Peveral then you are bang to rights and will need to start saving up for a hefty penalty.

 

[Mojo]

The trains at Hatfield Peverel are quite spaced out so it would be obvious for an Inspector to tell which train you alighted from. You don't say what time you left Stratford however there is a more than 2 Hour gap in the evening peak service where trains that depart Stratford going to Hatfield Peverel do not call at any stations where Pay As You Go would be valid.

 

[maniacmartin]

In your opening post you say "as i exited the station". Later you claim that the RPIs were on the platform you "explained that I just needed to get to the other platform to return to shenfield "., but in the end you didn't do that and left by car anyway.
Combined with Mojo's observation about the train calling pattern your story doesn't sound that plausible to me.

It is unlikely that you will be reported to the BTP for prosecution. Train Operating Companies generally bring private criminal prosecutions themselves without the police being involved. Sections 8 and 10 of our Fares, Ticketing and Routeing Guide covers this in a lot of detail, and it worth a read.

 

[JBuchananGB]

OP may have been on the 1806 service to Ipswich which runs non-stop to Hatfield Peveral. Time of touch-in at DLR station might support that. Someone used to occasional off-peak travel can easily get caught out by the peak timetable.

I have nearly been fooled by the fact that Southend line trains sometimes depart from 10A at Stratford in the peak, instead of 10. And by the Southminster train that runs fast to Wickford!

 

[gray1404]

I am not sure if the OP is lying. I think the best think we can do is help them work their way through the situation to get the best outcome.

As advised, this is highly unlikely to go to the BTP. I STRONGLY object to any RPI using the police as a threat in these circumstances. He also has no authority to decide if a case would proceed by the police to prosecution and should not be saying such. I would like to see this investigated. In short, I am confidant that such comments will NOT be in line with GA company policy. Why not just take details and move on.

I have been threatened with police myself on the trains for using a permitted route but one the guard did not think was valid. It is wrong to be threatened with the police. The police are not there as the railways own gang they can use at their disposal. Rather, they are there to act on oath and keep the peace. Maybe I should have threatened to call the police too for the fact I'd been caused harassment, alarm and distress.

What will happen now is that the train company will write to you to ask for your side of the story. This may take a couple of weeks to a few month or anything between. They have up to 6 months to take you to court (if indeed they do - which is unlikely at the moment.)

When you receive the letter you can write back to them and explain what happened. You can explain your mistake and offer an apology. You can then offer to pay any outstanding fare for your journey plus any costs they have incurred. They will then hopefully write back offered an out of court settlement. Do not worry and follow the advise above about getting your journey history from your Oyster card.

It would also help your case if you have not been in trouble with Greater Anglia for not having a ticket before.