Freeing of Lockerbie Bomber.

[me123]

Todays prisons are not what they were. Do gooders and human rights groups have lobbied changes to improve the prison system in favour of the inmate.

As far as I'm concered, Justice (fairness) has to work both ways. Therefore, a prisoner is sentenced to a fair sentence for the crime they have committed. But they're also tried as innocent until proven guilty and treated humanely throughout their sentence.

To me, Capital Punishment is not just. How can it be fair to take away someone's life? That's often what the convict has done themselves, so by taking away their life, how are you any better than the man in the gallows? And as for miscarriages of justice, whilst I accept DNA technology now can prove guilt, there are still some cases that are proven wrong and innocent people are released from jail. However, in the case of Derek Bentley (one of the last to hang in the UK), he was found innocent posthumously. How is it just to execute an innocent man, because there's no difference in the law between "certainly guilty" and "guilty beyond reasonable doubt".
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How exactly?

Would you let Bin Laden out if he was caught?

Would you let the 7/7 bombers out?

They have different cases to anyone else. If Bin Laden was imprisoned and released straight away on compassionate grounds, there's no doubt in my mind that he would be a threat to others in the promotion of terror in his final days. Likely, the same would be said for the 7/7 bombers. But the man released on Thursday has been deemed not to be a threat to himself or to others, so they're different cases!

Under Scots law, the provision in the law requires each case to be decided on its own merits.

 

[TrainBrain185]

Well, Meghri's 3 months has passed. Who are the pillocks here?

 

[Old Timer]

Megrahi was innocent as another Appeal was going to prove beyond doubt.

The case had so many holes in it and so much evidence in his defence that was not provided to the defence that it is probably going to rank as the greatest ever miscarriage in the UK.

A whole host of Labour Minsters both current and former would have been gravely embarrassed, as would the US so there was no way that another Appeal was going to happen.

His release on health grounds was the only way that both Countries could prevent a lot of dirty washing from being publicly laundered, especially as it also undermines the case for Iraq.

The "Pillocks here" are those who voted Labour back into power twice after the initial writing on the wall.

 

[me123]

Well, Meghri's 3 months has passed. Who are the pillocks here?

I'd give it another week. Cancer, by its nature, is rather unpredictable. Then you should start playing the blame game. And investigating the medical evidence for the release.

 

[yorkie]

Who are the pillocks here?

People who believe that someone is guilty when it's obvious they aren't. People who believe that courts are never wrong, when everyone with half a brain knows that they sometimes make mistakes.

 

[djw1981]

Get the private eye investigation, read it, look at the 10 key questions. If you still believe that he did it, seek psychiatric help, because you are delusional.

 

[TrainBrain185]

Hmm, wonder what is on the agenda between Prime Minister Cameron and President Obama?? The clock still ticks since his release.

 

[Old Timer]

The USA administration is up to its ears in muck over Lockerbie.

It is desperate to pin the blame on Megrahi, simply to prevent any examination of its own role in the matter, i.e. the involvement of its own security and intelligence services in both the funding and the arming of those who were REALLY involved.

Things are complicated by a lame duck President whose ratings are plummeting month by month as the greater majority of the US is now starting to see what the rest of us saw several years ago....... a Political lightweight with a great line in speaking from a prepared speech, but incompetent, intellectually naive, and unable to take hard decisions when needed. A President who has lost the confidence of his own Military,and whose first response is to prevaricate and then blame anyone else in his usual public display of petulence.

Add to this his anti-British postulations and his dependency on a number of big donors and you have someone who is merely a puppet representative of an administration which he is unable to command the respect of let alone lead.

Obama now represents the greatest threat to World peace and Order, as well as to the International relationships between the USA and the UK/Europe.

It is incomprehensible, that he should be so vindictive to the UK given the massive support that the USA has had over many many years, and it is especially stomach-churning given the number of British troops who have (and will be killed and injured) prosecuting the finalisation of an illegal and unjustified War, whom only the US could have engaged upon with the support of the UK.

Iraq and Afghanistan will soon join the long list of Countries which the US has sought to attack, and who have roundly defeated the US.

Dear God they couldn't even invade Grenada without totally cocking it up, even moreso bearing in mind the Grenadian "army" was armed with little more than a few air rifles used by a handful of soldiers best known for their exploits on the beach rather than in action (of the Military kind that is !)

Anyway, I have already written to the US Embassy in London, copy to Obama, setting out my complete disgust with his anti-British attitude.

I do not expect a reply.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

From 'The Scotsman' http://news.scotsman.com/world/Was-Lockerbie-suspect-working-for.4631017.jp
speculating that one of the people being said now thought to be involved in the bombing, Abu Nadal, was an US agent who died in Iraq in 2002.

"Campaigners said the latest evidence adds weight to the claims that Libyan secret agent Abdelbasset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi – who was found guilty of the atrocity in 2001 – and the Libyan government were scapegoats to cover up a wider plot."

"Former MP Tam Dalyell said the reports added weight to the theory that Lockerbie was a "tit-for-tat" attack for the shooting down of an Iranian passenger airliner by the warship USS Vincennes in 1988, and was allowed by the US administration."

"In a joint statement, Mr Dalyell and Prof Black (Scottish law Professor) said: "If the American public had known of a link with Abu Nidal, and had known that the US government knew enough to pull VIPs off the plane and let home-going students take their place, there would have been fury at a time of transition between the presidencies of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Snr.

"The fact that the Iraqi government either executed Abu Nidal or forced him to commit suicide suggests they had discovered he was an American spy."

and a commentator on this article

This makes a great deal more sense than the fragment of electronic circuit board "found" by the CIA in amongst the wreckage which in all subsequent test could not have survived the blast.

Not to mention the US Department of Justice paying $2m to Tony Gauci, the Maltese shopkeeper who gave crucial evidence at the trial suggesting that Megrahi had bought clothes later used in the suitcase that allegedly held the Lockerbie bomb.

Perhaps the Scottish Government were told they were not allowed to release him through a miscarriage of justice as this would open up a can of worms?

How do you then allow then innocent man to be released with the power that the Scottish Government have?

This may have been explained to him and he agreed to remove his appeal to be released on compassionate release instead which is a standard process?

and another

The key evidence supplied by the CIA against this individual, and which was the mainstay of the prosecution, has been subsequently brought into question.

In 2007 his case was reviewed the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission (SCCRC) and found that he "may have suffered a miscarriage of justice".

I fully support the Scottish Government on this one, the US are mud slinging to distract attention as always.

The Scottish Government were put in an impossible position by the Labour Government in Westminster and especially by Blair with his tent meeting in Libya and pressure from BP.

Although they have full control over the Justice system the Foreign policy element is still reserved and they were backed into a corner by the UK Government.

I believe they did the correct thing rejecting the "prisoner transfer agreement" and instead granting him "compassionate release" which is common practice in Scots Law.

This also does not allow him to become a martyr and increasing the threat of reprisals against Scotland by dieing in a Scottish jail.

More than that this US mud slinging is in the face of the Scottish Justice system being allegedly duped by dodgy evidence from the CIA and other US Government agencies as Megrahi was probably innocent.

and

What I take from the information is that there is a letter from the US to the Scottish Government which has not been released as it is diplomatic correspondence. This letter states that the US was happy for compassionate release instead of the PTA.

"Mr MacAskill said the only documents which the Scottish government had not already put in the public domain were correspondence with the US government"

"The letter from the US State Department to the Scottish Government effectively accepting the release of Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al Megrahi on compassionate grounds as preferable to repatriation under the Prisoner Transfer Agreement (PTA) confirms the US condemnation of the Scottish Government as hypocrisy of the first order."

and

They've now invited either Alex Salmond or MacAskill to give evidence to Congress.

It's taken them about 2 or 3 three weeks to understand that the Scottish government had the final say on whether to release him or not.

For my part, I never, ever belived Megrahi was guilty - from even before the Private Eye exposé.
But I do find it objectionable that the US, who put so much money into Lybian oil developments, are looking at how they can blame the Westminster government (who had nowt to do with the release of Megrahi) and how they fail to understand that if there was any English-Scottish conspiracy to deal with Megrahi's release then there are a very large number of Scottish Nationalsists who would have been frantically uncovering and exposing the plot for every political inch they could gain!
There was no English-Scottish conspiracy. The Americans manage to do conspiracies all by themselves.

Its remarkably simple:
The "evidence" against Megrahi was fabricated, (and in my opinion, fabricated poorly). And now, the US wants to find scapegoats and distractions for its own truly terrible situation (its nation hasn't yet appreciated the financial disaster that awaits it, which at least Euorpe is beginning to understand).
Unfortunately for all of us, in the UK and the Middle East, history tells us that the US has occassionally become agressive when blocked into a corner.

Scotland has the higher moral ground in this one, as well as the law and the evidence. But we all have something to fear when the US starts to become angry - whether they are right or wrong.

 

[CarterUSM]

From 'The Scotsman' http://news.scotsman.com/world/Was-Lockerbie-suspect-working-for.4631017.jp
speculating that one of the people being said now thought to be involved in the bombing, Abu Nadal, was an US agent who died in Iraq in 2002. and a commentator on this articleand anotherandand
For my part, I never, ever belived Megrahi was guilty - from even before the Private Eye exposé.
But I do find it objectionable that the US, who put so much money into Lybian oil developments, are looking at how they can blame the Westminster government (who had nowt to do with the release of Megrahi) and how they fail to understand that if there was any English-Scottish conspiracy to deal with Megrahi's release then there are a very large number of Scottish Nationalsists who would have been frantically uncovering and exposing the plot for every political inch they could gain!
There was no English-Scottish conspiracy. The Americans manage to do conspiracies all by themselves.

Its remarkably simple:
The "evidence" against Megrahi was fabricated, (and in my opinion, fabricated poorly). And now, the US wants to find scapegoats and distractions for its own truly terrible situation (its nation hasn't yet appreciated the financial disaster that awaits it, which at least Euorpe is beginning to understand).
Unfortunately for all of us, in the UK and the Middle East, history tells us that the US has occassionally become agressive when blocked into a corner.

Scotland has the higher moral ground in this one, as well as the law and the evidence. But we all have something to fear when the US starts to become angry - whether they are right or wrong.

Indeed, they give the impression of a spoiled child! I find their 'invitation' to congress rather laughable also, perhaps if they are that bothered, they could travel here instead. I'm no fan of George Galloway, but his performance at that very venue endowed me with so much respect for his oratory skill.