First Group - New Bus Livery

[Schnellzug]

Do you think they might finally drop their fatuous slogan "Transforming Travel", which they've had for about 15 years, but there still doesn't seem to be much sign of it happening yet?

 

[tbtc]

Do you think they might finally drop their fatuous slogan "Transforming Travel", which they've had for about 15 years, but there still doesn't seem to be much sign of it happening yet?

They have IIRC; it's now "we believe that buses are the future" (or something vague like that, it might have been "we believe that children are the future"...)

 

[Schnellzug]

Oh yes, I thought the new chairman was just a Whitney Houston fan.
So does that mean that they're finally admitting that they haven't managed to Transform Travel? I wonder if this new initiative will be any more durable than "ftr", which was supposed to trnsfrm trvl but turned out to be a bit of a dmp sqb.

 

[jon0844]

How do you 'transform' travel anyway? Turn a train into a bus, or make coaches fly?

 

[tbtc]

I wonder if this new initiative will be any more durable than "ftr"

The "ftr" buses are apparently leaving York - http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/9500723.York_s_ftr_bus_to_be_axed_by_Easter/ - there are many words I would use to describe the concept, but "durable" certainly isn't one

 

[trentside]

The "ftr" buses are apparently leaving York - http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/9500723.York_s_ftr_bus_to_be_axed_by_Easter/ - there are many words I would use to describe the concept, but "durable" certainly isn't one

Hardly surprising.

Actually, I always found the "ftr" livery attractive, just a shame about the vehicles themselves.

 

[Ivo]

Unfortunately we can still give the stereotypical view of the First slogan of transforming travel. They have... but not in a good way.

I can't say I'm surprised about the ftr "failure" in York. It just isn't big enough to justify their use (and that's coming from an even smaller city to have bendy buses). Where do you think they may end up if they are bound for "somewhere in the northern region"? I would be willing to bet that either the Manchester 8 or 135, or the Leeds/Bradford 72, are likely contenders... complete with renumbering to "4" if one of the Manchester pair.

From FirstGroup.com

First, Yorks principal bus company, has confirmed that it is proposing to end the operation of its groundbreaking ftr bus rapid transit vehicles in York by Easter 2012.

Following a comprehensive review of passenger growth prospects, First has identified an opportunity to launch the ftr elsewhere in its Northern Region. As a result the ftr vehicles will be withdrawn from York for a full refurbishment programme ahead of being reintroduced into service elsewhere. Whilst this was a commercial decision taken by First, it is mindful of the aspirations of Yorks council leaders to remove the ftr vehicles from York.

The proposal has only just been finalised following an extensive internal review. Owing to the sensitivity of these discussions, particularly with staff, First has been unable to confirm before now its future plans for ftr in York.

First will be discussing the changes with its key stakeholders in the community and has begun the process of consultation with all of its employees affected by the change.
The number 4 Acomb to University of York route, currently served by the ftr, is a key bus corridor within York. It will now see the introduction of a modern fleet of easily accessible double decker buses, which will also benefit the York Community because there will be a reduction in levels of carbon emissions when compared to the ftr. Passengers on that route can be assured that their frequent high quality bus service will continue without any timetable changes.

Dave Alexander, Regional Managing Director for First in the North of England, said, "As part of our growth agenda we have been evaluating opportunities to utilise the ftr vehicles elsewhere in the region and are confident that ftr will stimulate new public transport journeys on a route currently being developed outside of York. The removal of the ftr vehicles from York allows us to facilitate the refurbishment of the ftr fleet within Yorkshire.

"The ftr has been an innovative public transport concept and has been successful at generating growth since its introduction five years ago. Its launch coincided with many infrastructure changes in York, the benefits of which will be felt by bus passengers for years to come.

"First is an important part of the York community that remains committed to delivering a frequent, high quality bus network within the City and surrounding areas. We will now introduce comfortable, modern double decker vehicles with lower carbon emissions. Also, and in partnership with City of York Council, we are continuing to evaluate a number of service developments, all of which are focussed on increasing bus patronage in York.'

I still haven't travelled on an ftr vehicle :?

 

[Schnellzug]

"As a result the ftr vehicles will be withdrawn from York for a full refurbishment programme ahead of being reintroduced into service elsewhere"

Well, that's a first (sic.) They rarely bother with giving anything a full refurbishment programme when they transfer them anywhere else, do they.
And their PR department seems to be shooting themselves in the foot a bit. " We will now introduce comfortable, modern double decker vehicles with lower carbon emissions"
So what was Tomorrow's Big Thing when they were introduced is now uncomfortable, old, not modern and makes high Carbon emissions. It makes it sound like they're Routemasters, doesn't it, that was exactly what tfL were saying to justify replacing them with bendies. Now do you think that wherever these outdated, old fashioned ftrs are cascaded to, they'll be prmoted as comfortable, modern and low carbon emission? I bet they will.

 

[Statto]

First would be better off sorting out problems with some of there fleet before spending money on a new livery, First Wirral vehicles regally operate in service with blinds not working, & just a sticker displaying the route number, which doesn't give a good impression on the public

 

[BestWestern]

IMHO it would be absolutely impossible to be worse than the existing 'livery' !
This new one is still pretty dire, but at least there is less of that hideous pink.

What's wrong with the nice red and yellow livery recently used by First Potteries ?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27302738@N06/6175399361/

I suppose you could argue that what is 'wrong' with the red and yellow scheme is that it is just a little too garish for some, the current trend being as it is towards softer, pastel-based shades. What your photo also shows is how much vehicle design has changed, the straight lines of that old livery are clearly not at all suited to the swooping curves of the OmniCity and Wright bodywork on those buses.

I'd have to say I'm not bowled over by the new scheme, and I'd have to agree that the roll-out of it is likely to be too sedate for anybody to really notice the difference. Ever since the introduction of the original 'Barbie' scheme First have struggled to come up with a clear livery policy or brand identity, and this is possibly just another change when one isn't needed. There are also fleet-wide issues surrounding general upkeep and vehicle appearance, which is too often well below that of the other industry leaders. I do feel that the current livery can, if presented well, convey a certain classiness, but it needs to look fresh and clean in order to work. That's a tall order for anybody when the base colour is off-white, but it's never going to happen if buses are routinely turned out scruffy.

 

[WatcherZero]

"As a result the ftr vehicles will be withdrawn from York for a full refurbishment programme ahead of being reintroduced into service elsewhere"

Well, that's a first (sic.) They rarely bother with giving anything a full refurbishment programme when they transfer them anywhere else, do they.
And their PR department seems to be shooting themselves in the foot a bit. " We will now introduce comfortable, modern double decker vehicles with lower carbon emissions"
So what was Tomorrow's Big Thing when they were introduced is now uncomfortable, old, not modern and makes high Carbon emissions. It makes it sound like they're Routemasters, doesn't it, that was exactly what tfL were saying to justify replacing them with bendies. Now do you think that wherever these outdated, old fashioned ftrs are cascaded to, they'll be prmoted as comfortable, modern and low carbon emission? I bet they will.

Eco buses have been developing quickly in the last 6 years since the FTR entered service, in a sense it was leapfrogged by newer technology.

 

[Schnellzug]

Eco buses have been developing quickly in the last 6 years since the FTR entered service, in a sense it was leapfrogged by newer technology.

Do you honestly think that that's going to be first york or whatever they're called now's main priority, given the number of 15 or so year old Darts (and even older Olympians) still to be seen all over the empire? Does it not sound like mere PR flannel, trying to make the best of yet another u-turn by management, or of one of Ffirst group's periodic movings around of vehicles from somewhere to somewhere else for no readily apparent reason?

 

[tbtc]

I suppose you could argue that what is 'wrong' with the red and yellow scheme is that it is just a little too garish for some, the current trend being as it is towards softer, pastel-based shades. What your photo also shows is how much vehicle design has changed, the straight lines of that old livery are clearly not at all suited to the swooping curves of the OmniCity and Wright bodywork on those buses

I agree with that.

Bus liveries that worked on vehicles twenty/ fifty years ago look wrong on modern vehicles, which have big black "boxes" of windows - a livery really needs to work around this constraint, rather than pretending that it doesn't exist.

Something like the London Midland livery on trains, which uses the constraint of a big window "box" as part of the livery.

 

[BestWestern]

Bus liveries that worked on vehicles twenty/ fifty years ago look wrong on modern vehicles, which have big black "boxes" of windows - a livery really needs to work around this constraint, rather than pretending that it doesn't exist.

Something like the London Midland livery on trains, which uses the constraint of a big window "box" as part of the livery.

That's a very good point, and I agree that there are some very competent rail liveries which would transfer well onto some of the same companies' buses. I'd also plump for Southern as a good example, and we know from it's rail replacement fleet that SWT's scheme carries well onto buses, and as others have already observed First would do well to look to it's rail operations for some livery inspiration.

 

[185]

First would be better off sorting out problems with some of there fleet before spending money on a new livery, First Wirral vehicles regally operate in service with blinds not working, & just a sticker displaying the route number, which doesn't give a good impression on the public

I dread to see FirstGroup murder the reputation of the nations best bus company for the second time.

 

[trentside]

Just found an image of a repainted vehicle in Rotherham on Flickr, it's a view of the back end and a vehicle without advertising, somehow it looks worse;

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63730085@N07/6824091633/sizes/l/in/photostream/

 

[starrymarkb]

Oh my that is hideous!

 

[Ivo]

It would appear that they have got their present participle verbs mixed up. Their advertising says "we believe in improving your buses". The current present participle verb should be "worsening".

If buses were alive, it would be difficult to not feel sympathy for it...

 

[markydh]

I agree with that.

Bus liveries that worked on vehicles twenty/ fifty years ago look wrong on modern vehicles, which have big black "boxes" of windows - a livery really needs to work around this constraint, rather than pretending that it doesn't exist.

Something like the London Midland livery on trains, which uses the constraint of a big window "box" as part of the livery.

However, 'heritage' liveries can work well if you use them as a canvas for the buses you are using on a route. Take this Go North East example from their recently launched OK branded routes in and around Bishop Auckland...

...which is based on this...

(Pictures not mine)

 

[MCW]

My apologies for bumping this thread months after the discussion ended, but I felt it would be better than starting yet another thread on it! lol

I think the new style could play into Leicester's hands very well here, we could possibly see a slight re-emergence of the GRT First branded livery, which would be awesome and the colours would work with it too!

shame arriva don't do the same thing to be honest, I am sick of seeing pukey blue/green buses....

 

[bb21]

Wouldn't mind seeing the livery worn by 39088 again myself.

 

[Ivo]

Wouldn't mind seeing the livery worn by 39088 again myself.

Nice livery - but it's a Dominator. Urgh. Hideous things.

Southend had a bit of a history with them. We only ever had nine, but:

Five of them were mixed in with First vehicles elsewhere in the country (G626/8 EKA and G663-5 FKA)
Three of them were the only K-reg models built (K36/7 XNE and K38 YVM)
One was the last one ever built whose registration closely matched some ex-Southend Volvo Olympians (N716 TPK)

The last one (I forget its fleet number) wasn't so bad, but the others were ultra-slow 3-speed models. The K-reg ones were the worst; at least the older ones accelerated fairly well when given the chance to.

Also, only the G-reg ones had the same body as the one in bb21's pic.

N.B.: They were operated by Losers 'r' Us, not by First.

 

[tbtc]

However, 'heritage' liveries can work well if you use them as a canvas for the buses you are using on a route. Take this Go North East example from their recently launched OK branded routes in and around Bishop Auckland...

...which is based on this...

(Pictures not mine)

Cheers for the link (sorry for not replying sooner) - I like that a lot - partly because they've worked with the vehicle's body (keeping the windows one big black rectangle, rather than trying to paint it over them).

 

[90019]

First have repainted at least one Trident from the Edinburgh fleet into Eastern Scottish livery. At first I thought it was a heritage livery but now I'm wondering if we are going to see Eastern colours back on the streets of Edinburgh? Probably wishful thinking on my part really.

32222, I think. From what I've heard, it was accident damaged, and once fixed was repainted.
Whether any more will be done, I don't know.

It's just the one.

 

[MCW]

Wouldn't mind seeing the livery worn by 39088 again myself.

I'm indifferent about that livery I quite like it... but on some of the vehicles it look like a white canvas with broccoli puke all over it! LOL

Nice livery - but it's a Dominator. Urgh. Hideous things.

Southend had a bit of a history with them. We only ever had nine, but:

Five of them were mixed in with First vehicles elsewhere in the country (G626/8 EKA and G663-5 FKA)
Three of them were the only K-reg models built (K36/7 XNE and K38 YVM)
One was the last one ever built whose registration closely matched some ex-Southend Volvo Olympians (N716 TPK)

The last one (I forget its fleet number) wasn't so bad, but the others were ultra-slow 3-speed models. The K-reg ones were the worst; at least the older ones accelerated fairly well when given the chance to.

Also, only the G-reg ones had the same body as the one in bb21's pic.

N.B.: They were operated by Losers 'r' Us, not by First.

They weren't all that bad. I remember them upto age 11/12 at a push. I remember 39088 as it especially smelt like damp rags..... I know some of the guys from the LTHT (Leicester Transport Historical Trust) and they have 100. that one is a 4 speed box and is a bit niftier than the older 3 speed boxes. I think Leicester's were a majority of 4 speed box's, if I remember rightly, the earlier ones like TBC50X had 3 speed boxes??? I dare say someone will correct me mind, lol

Personally, I would like to see a localised livery focused more on the original roots of 'First in Leicester' which to make it short, went like this:

Leicester corporation transport, Leicester city transport, Leicester citybus, Leicester citybus (GRT), First Leicester citybus and First Leicester.

So the colours of maroon, cream and the odd shade of brown would look good! and maybe the leicester city bus branding with first F logos again.... it would help an awful lot really people often associate leicester's best transport with the old buses in the old colours.

 

[bb21]

Leicester corporation transport, Leicester city transport, Leicester citybus, Leicester citybus (GRT), First Leicester citybus and First Leicester.

On the subject of Citybus, why has the legal lettering changed to an address in Essex?

 

[MCW]

On the subject of Citybus, why has the legal lettering changed to an address in Essex?

Beyond me but it smells a bit fishy in my books mate. Legally they are registered as being First Potteries limited, so why the flip the address is for Essex is beyond me!