Fare Evasion?

[KP]

Lookig for some advice please:

I was stopped at the barrier yesterday morning by a ticket inspector and showed him by geniune mistake the previous mornings ticket - here is what had happened:

I had turned up to the station as I do each morning and went to purchase a single ticket on my card for £1.80. As I got to the counter my husband called to me that the train was here so I put away my card and found £2 to pay quickly by cash and got my 1 ticket. Now every morning I do exactly the same thing - I take my reciept that i just go and take the previous days ticket out of my pocket and bin it as I exit the ticket office and I retain my new ticket. I thought no more on it and got on the train with my husband and settled down to read my paper with my tciekt in my pocket.

So I get to the destination station, exit along with the hoards of other passangers and talking to my husband as I walk pass ticket expectors holding up my ticket to them I am abruptly taken to one side and asked why I am trying to go through with an old ticket. I said no it isn't and tried to take it back to have a look at the date and was harshly told 'yes it is' and 'can you tell me why you don't have a valid ticket' having never been in this position before I literrally started to shake. I called out to my husband that I've thrown the wrong ticket away a to get him to come back and proceeded to explain what must have happened. The ticket inspector seemed to be sympathetic to what I was saying after I got my husband to come back. He asked me my details (name address where I tarvelled from etc) and I fully complied. However he then asked me how I paid for my ticket, I said by card as thats how I pay every morning except on very rare occasions (bank statements would show this). He asked me to sign the back of my previous days ticket and his little black book where he had made a note of what happened and my details. My hand was shaking - I know I had done nothing wrong but was visably shaken up. The ticket inspector said I would get a letter in 6-7 weeks. he did not say a letter for what and I did not ask. I asked if I should pay for the ticket again at the desk but he said no 'not if what you are saying is true and your bank statements can show you paid' .

So my husband and I left to walk to work.

Approx 5 minutes later whilst walking I turned to my husband and said in complete dissmay - I DIDN'T PAY BY CARD! I think maybe because its my usual form of payment and because I was shaken up I hadn't thought to say that on that morning because the train was arriving I had actually paid by cash. So now it looks like I have lied!

I know I need to wait to see what the letter says but I'm terrified I will be prosecuted for fare avoidance rather than failure to produce a ticket (because I can't produce a bank statement to prove I bought the ticket)which I'm aware is far more serious and I did not lie deliberatly, but made a mistake under questioning.

I guess my question is should I make an attempt to correct my statement now by contacting Northern Rail? I would like to add I have never avoided paying a train fare in my life and will be much more aware of which ticket I am throwing away in the future.

Any advice much appreciated.

 

[bb21]

Hi and welcome.

Let me get this story straight first as I am getting rather confused.

You bought a ticket for £2 with cash at the ticket office. You then mistakenly binned yesterday's ticket instead of the one from the day before so you now have no evidence that you had paid your fare. At your destination station you tried to go through the barrier showing the ticket from the day before and was stopped. You then claimed that you paid by card, which is obviously incorrect. Now you are waiting for Northern's letter to arrive.

Is that correct?

If so, as you have probably already realised, it does not look good at all. By falsely claiming that you paid by card, you have now given them an easy line of argument to say that you intended to avoid paying your fare (fare evasion), which if convicted in court will result in a criminal record.

I doubt you will be able to prove your innocence, short of the ticket office clerk being able to recognise you or through CCTV evidence.

There might be the possibility of an out-of-court settlement, but Northern are not obliged to accept it if they feel that it is an easy conviction to secure.

Do you remember anything that the RPI asked you and your responses to those questions?

 

[RJ]

KP, you have a legal right to obtain any CCTV data they hold on you. Perhaps you may wish to put in a request ASAP if you think it will help your case.

That said, it is a strict liability offence to fail to show a valid ticket when asked. If Northern go down that road, there's not much you can do other than try to settle out of court.

I suggest you obtain that CCTV now, await the letter then use it when responding to them to show you purchased the ticket. There is a chance they may show lenience, but this is not guaranteed.

 

[island]

You'll probably get a failure to pay charge of £81.80, payment of which will close the matter.

 

[Squaddie]

I had turned up to the station as I do each morning and went to purchase a single ticket on my card for £1.80. As I got to the counter my husband called to me that the train was here so I put away my card and found £2 to pay quickly by cash and got my 1 ticket. Now every morning I do exactly the same thing - I take my receipt that I just got and take the previous days ticket out of my pocket and bin it as I exit the ticket office and I retain my new ticket. I thought no more on it and got on the train with my husband and settled down to read my paper with my ticket in my pocket.

I have to say, that's a very convoluted way of going about disposing of your previous tickets, and is just asking for trouble: you were bound to throw away the wrong ticket eventually. How unfortunate that it happened on exactly the day that you paid cash for the ticket and have no proof that you paid for one. As you remember the time at which you bought it, it might be relatively straightforward for the train company to check whether a ticket of that description was sold for cash at that time - but it's unlikely that they'd be prepared to go to the trouble of determining that.

If you make the same journey every day, wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to buy a season ticket? What type of ticket did your husband have?

 

[Clip]

Just because they op may be able to prove they bought a ticket through either the sales ledger or the CCTV does not mean that they didn't give it to anyone else to use on the same journey.

 

[KP]

Hi and welcome.

Let me get this story straight first as I am getting rather confused.

You bought a ticket for £2 with cash at the ticket office. You then mistakenly binned yesterday's ticket instead of the one from the day before so you now have no evidence that you had paid your fare. At your destination station you tried to go through the barrier showing the ticket from the day before and was stopped. You then claimed that you paid by card, which is obviously incorrect. Now you are waiting for Northern's letter to arrive.

Is that correct?

If so, as you have probably already realised, it does not look good at all. By falsely claiming that you paid by card, you have now given them an easy line of argument to say that you intended to avoid paying your fare (fare evasion), which if convicted in court will result in a criminal record.

I doubt you will be able to prove your innocence, short of the ticket office clerk being able to recognise you or through CCTV evidence.

There might be the possibility of an out-of-court settlement, but Northern are not obliged to accept it if they feel that it is an easy conviction to secure.

Do you remember anything that the RPI asked you and your responses to those questions?

This is correct. I binned the current days ticket instead of the previous days ticket and showed the previous days ticket to the guard.

It is is rare but I do sometimes pay by cash if the train is soon approaching and I don;t have time to do the longer process of paying by card. But on most occasions I pay by card.

There is not point me having a monthly pass as I only work part time since my baby was born (I did have a monthly pass when I worked full time). My husband has a monthly pass.

In all honesty I had no intention of trying to pull a swift one on the ticket inspector. If there is ever an occasion (I think maybe 4 or 5 times) when I have been unable to purchase a ticket at my original station there is a man with a machine before the barriers so you can get a ticket from him which I have always done if I don;t have a ticket.

I showed him my ticket for the previous day with no attempt to hide it and even told him he was wrong and it was the right date. It was genuine mistake although I realise its probably a mix of stories they have heard before!

I will go to the original station today and ask if they have the cctv image for that morning - will this be enough evidence? Failing that I guess I wait for the letter and try and explain what happened and offer an apology for not having the correct figure and that I am willing to pay the fine for this?

Do you feel this could go for court because I did not pay by card as I originally said? Should I have gone back and found the guard that morning to explain?

oh and I have not yet had a chance to explain that I did not pay by card so as it stands they do not know that this statement was incorrect. Should I phone them and tell them this?

 

[Clip]

Doesn't matter what you say or what you try and get from CCTV, the fact is, is that you failed top show upon request a valid ticket for your journey.

The railways are not a new thing, we have heard every conceivable excuse for not having a ticket even if you did buy one.

Sorry to sound harsh, but those are the facts.

 

[soil]

No point in the speculation (as usual) until (if) the letter arrives from Northern Rail.

 

[KP]

Doesn't matter what you say or what you try and get from CCTV, the fact is, is that you failed top show upon request a valid ticket for your journey.

The railways are not a new thing, we have heard every conceivable excuse for not having a ticket even if you did buy one.

Sorry to sound harsh, but those are the facts.

Sorry, I'm not trying to say I shouldn't be fined for failing to show a valid ticket, I threw the ticket away, it was my mistake and I have to face the consequence of a fine for doing that, what I want to avoid however is this being viewed as a deliberate act of fare avoidance which I did not do - the advice I am seeking is how best to approach the situation to try and prove I was not avoiding paying.

I am at some point in this whole process going to have to own up to having given the wrong details in my statement (that I paid by card when I actually paid by cash) - when is it best to own up to this - I am concerned that it is this which will make it look like I tried to avoid paying rather than the situation being that I threw away my ticket.

 

[Clip]

Well wait for the letter then come back and let us know what it says. No one can give any detailed advice on what to do until then.