Fare evasion - West Midlands train

[mattpatt123]

Hi, I was caught by WMT inspector at New Street 2 days ago (travelling from Birmingham International to New Street) on a 16-17 saver when I am 26 years old. I admit I made a stupid mistake and am genuinely remorseful and I will not repeat it but want to understand how to settle this without getting a criminal record.

I made the following mistakes:

* Selecting 16-17 saver when being 26
* Not being able to show any railcard - I did have 16-25 saver but it expired last month 10th June 2024 which I didn't realise till then.
* Traveling on a different train than the one I bought for (I took one train earlier and the inspector picked up on this)
* Used 16-17 on 3 trips since January for the same Birmingham International to Birmingham New Street route incorrectly (as in my trainline history)

When questioned why I selected 16-17 I panicked and said it was there by default and he goes no that can't be it and when asked my Trainline history and I showed he didn't look in detail but said that looks like this was been repeated a couple of times in the past.

I don't commute on a regular basis, maybe 10 trips since start of year and all fairly short. The fares I evaded are very small as it is a short trip (which is not an excuse) but just admit that it was stupid to try and do this and take a huge risk for small saving and was wrong.

I understand from reading the forums that I will get a letter in 4-6 weeks or so (or maybe longer?) and that they have 6 months to action and hopefully it gets posted and I pick it up on time and I respond appropriately to hopefully settle this out of court. I fully understand this isn't my choice but theirs but I really hope this is the case as I cannot have any record on my name - happy to settle up financially.

Until I get the letter is there anything I can do and any further comments on the matter and things I should consider? Understand I can't email them to get a faster response but if I do not see any letter in say 4-6 weeks should I do anything just to ensure I didn't miss the letter and to avoid escalations? Also wanted to check from the forum users' experiences any chances that they go directly to the court rather than 'intent to prosecute' that might cause troubles?

Do I draft a versions of letter responses and keep ready (for likely scenarios) as I understand if it is intent to prosecute its a standard letter from them asking for me to 'explain my side'?

Also to add is my concern on future citizenship application. I appreciate from previous comments that this is not a forum for seeking immigration advice but I would be grateful if I could get some advice or reference to threads or guides on potential issues of having a) out of court settlement b) SJPN, c) worst case scenario if it does go to court

For the out of court settlement, will it show up on DBS or any other checks for future job applications or citizenship application as its a civil matter (I hope) between me and the train company? I tried searching but couldn't find a clear answer

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum.

You've pretty well understood what's going to happen and when (although note that the railway don't really have a concept of 'only a small fare dodged': from their point of view 50p dodged is as bad as £5 which is as bad as £50). How you organise preparing your response is up to you, in that generally the railways allow 14 days for a response - so they want you to reply quickly, but not instantly. Personally, right now I would note what happened and when, while you have things like that fresh in your mind. But I would leave writing my response until the railway wrote to me: at this stage you can't know if they will only want to discuss the incident of a couple of days ago, or if they will have researched your ticket buying history and so also want you to talk about the other times you fare dodged. And you can only write a good response if you know what they want to talk about!

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Four 'mistakes' on one journey doesn't look good. That said, I expect you will be able to negotiate an out of court settlement with West Midlands Trains as long as you co-operate with their investigation and haven't come to their attention before.

It sounds as though you're aware of what is likely to happen, there isn't really anything you can do until their letter arrives. When it arrives, post a copy of it in this thread along with your draft reply and we will be happy to proof read it for you. Do redact any personal information before posting it.

It's highly unlikely that you will be prosecuted without an initial letter being sent to you asking for your version of events. If you did end up being prosecuted and plead guilty (or found guilty following a trial) then you would have a criminal conviction. Ordinarily a conviction under the railway byelaws won't show on a DBS check for most purposes but we always advise being honest if you are asked if you have a conviction. Paying an out of court settlement is not a criminal conviction and has no impact on DBS checks.

We are unable to advise on citizenship applications.

 

[mattpatt123]

Thanks Fawkes and Hadders for your detailed responses, much appreciated.. hopefully I will receive the letter soon and then I will be able to post a copy of it here and will prepare myself mentally for it till then

 

[mattpatt123]

Hi all, I have received the communication from West Midlands Railway over email this morning as attached.

Please could you advise if the below letter is good to respond back? Many thanks in advance.

-------------------

Dear Sir/Madam,

I sincerely apologise for the situation that occurred on 16th July 2024, and I am writing to address the matter transparently and seek a resolution.

On that date, I was approached by a revenue protection inspector at Birmingham New Street, having travelled from Birmingham International. I mistakenly used a 16-17 Saver ticket, though I am currently 26 years old. I admit to using this ticket for a few instances since January 2024, which was an oversight on my part.

During the inspection, I was unable to provide a valid explanation for the selection of the incorrect railcard, largely due to my initial panic and confusion. However, I fully acknowledge this error and regret any inconvenience caused to West Midlands Railway.

To rectify the situation, I have immediately ceased using the incorrect railcard and purchased the correct 26-30 railcard on 16th July 2024. I am reviewing all future travel bookings to ensure full compliance with ticketing requirements, demonstrating my commitment to rectifying the error and preventing its recurrence.

I am willing to pay any penalties or fare differences necessary to compensate for these fare evasion instances and respectfully request that this matter be settled out of court. Given that these were isolated incidents driven by an honest mistake, I hope for your understanding and leniency.

Please provide me with the details of any outstanding fare differences or penalties and the method by which I can make the necessary payments. I am committed to resolving this issue promptly and appreciate your understanding.

Thank you for your consideration, and I look forward to your response.

Yours sincerely,

 

[AlterEgo]

Try writing it again, but without AI, because that triggers my AI contect detector browser extension. For a start whatever it's churned out implies you made mistakes, when it is quite clear from your earlier posts that this was intentional. You don't need to literally fess up and say "I did it on purpose", but do not imply it was an "oversight" or you did it "mistakenly" or it was an "honest mistake". Cut all the flowery stuff out of the response, too.

 

[John R]

Try writing it again, but without AI, because that triggers my AI contect detector browser extension. For a start whatever it's churned out implies you made mistakes, when it is quite clear from your earlier posts that this was intentional. You don't need to literally fess up and say "I did it on purpose", but do not imply it was an "oversight" or you did it "mistakenly" or it was an "honest mistake". Cut all the flowery stuff out of the response, too.

Agree completely. It should be no more than half its current length, which is perfectly achievable by cutting out much of the AI guff.

 

[Hadders]

I agree that this looks like an AI generated letter. Bin it and start again, if necessary look at some draft letters in other threads in this section of the forum.

 

[mattpatt123]

Sorry, wanted to make sure the letter covers all ground so fed ChatGPT few instructions - below is a letter drafted by myself, would appreciate feedback.

P.S. I never used an AI detector and I can't wrap my head around it that the below which I wrote from scratch gets picked up as 100% AI generated whereas the one that was actually ChatGPT generated fully above only gets picked up as 82%.

--------------

Dear Sir/Madam

I am writing in response to your email regarding incident that took place on 16th July 2024.

I was travelling from Birmingham International to Birmingham New Street and used a 16-17 saver railcard when I was 26 years old. I admit I shouldn't have done this and sincerely apologise for this. I wanted to let you know that this has happened a few times since January 2024 for which again I am truly regretful for.

I wanted to express that I will make sure this does not happen again. As a corrective measure I have purchased the correct 26-30 railcard immediately after on 16th July 2024 and will ensure that the correct railcard and ticket are used for future travel.

I am willing to compensate the company for loss of revenue on the tickets and any administrative fees in relation to this and I would be grateful if this settled out of court.

Many thanks and look forward to a response.

Regards,

 

[John R]

“I have now purchased a 26-30 Railcard, and will ensure…” is better imo.

We tend to advise against being “willing”, as you have no say in the matter. Better to start “ I would be very grateful if…” and adjust the rest accordingly.

 

[Hadders]

This is much better.

 

[mattpatt123]

Thanks all, really appreciated.

Sent the letter out and got a response back

£50 ticket fare difference and £175 admin fees - £225 payable ‍

Hefty price to pay for the mistake indeed but just will be grateful if matter is closed at this stage without escalation to more mess obviously - will make the payment shortly.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

But it wasn’t a mistake. Or a single journey. There were 4 separate journeys.
The settlement is meant to cover their costs and to act as a deterrent.
Which it seems it has, by your purchase of the correct railcard.

 

[mattpatt123]

Yes agreed, won’t repeat it again definitely

Thanks all again for the help on this.

But it wasn’t a mistake. Or a single journey. There were 4 separate journeys.
The settlement is meant to cover their costs and to act as a deterrent.
Which it seems it has, by your purchase of the correct railcard.

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for letting us know that you managed to obtain a satisfactory result.

 

[mattpatt123]

Hi all, just received this email back confirming closure.

Just for my records and for future, will copy of this email be sufficient that no further action is required or is there anything else typically seen

 

[Hadders]

They won't send anything else. Keep a copy of the email filed 'just in case' but you shouldn't need it.