Fare evasion penalty query

[marknoble121]

Afternoon.

I have recently been caught short faring on the Chiltern network and am expecting a letter from them.

After reading through some of these threads I'm now worried I may be in more trouble if they go through my past transactions on trainline. The issue I have is that I hold a 26-30 Railcard but for a number of transactions (almost 50%) I have selected a 16-25 railcard. There was no reason for this as I just assumed these were the same and after travelling on hundreds of journeys, i've never been told on inspection that this is an issue.

Does anyone have any experience on whether all those journeys will be liable to be repaid as technically the ticket is invalid although I would have paid the same anyway?

Thanks!

 

[Titfield]

Unfortunately experience suggests that Chiltern go by the book however I think that if they send you a spreadsheet to complete (or indeed you create one) and they highlight this infringement in their calculation then this would be a point worth asking them to treat sympathetically. Obviously a big ask given the other wrongdoing.

 

[Haywain]

After reading through some of these threads I'm now worried I may be in more trouble if they go through my past transactions on trainline. The issue I have is that I hold a 26-30 Railcard but for a number of transactions (almost 50%) I have selected a 16-25 railcard. There was no reason for this as I just assumed these were the same and after travelling on hundreds of journeys, i've never been told on inspection that this is an issue.

Does anyone have any experience on whether all those journeys will be liable to be repaid as technically the ticket is invalid although I would have paid the same anyway?

It's unusual to see such a case so it is diffcult to predict how they will approach it. Whilst you have not been doing the right thing you will not have been gaining from it in financial terms, so they may not be concerned about this.

 

[John R]

It's unusual to see such a case so it is diffcult to predict how they will approach it. Whilst you have not been doing the right thing you will not have been gaining from it in financial terms, so they may not be concerned about this.

There may have been some limited gain if use of the 18-25 discount enabled lower fare discounts during July and August, when IIRC there is a divergence in the terms of the two railcards?

 

[Titfield]

It's unusual to see such a case so it is diffcult to predict how they will approach it. Whilst you have not been doing the right thing you will not have been gaining from it in financial terms, so they may not be concerned about this.

That the OP didnt financially gain from the selection of the wrong railcard is certainly a point that a solicitor would mention but of course that comes with a very considerable cost.

Whilst this may not give the OP comfort, it will certainly be of interest to see how Chiltern view this. One would like to think they would take a pragmatic view and focus on the shortfaring doing nothing more about the wrong railcard than a reminder to always select the correct railcard.

 

[WesternLancer]

Afternoon.

I have recently been caught short faring on the Chiltern network and am expecting a letter from them.

After reading through some of these threads I'm now worried I may be in more trouble if they go through my past transactions on trainline. The issue I have is that I hold a 26-30 Railcard but for a number of transactions (almost 50%) I have selected a 16-25 railcard. There was no reason for this as I just assumed these were the same and after travelling on hundreds of journeys, i've never been told on inspection that this is an issue.

Does anyone have any experience on whether all those journeys will be liable to be repaid as technically the ticket is invalid although I would have paid the same anyway?

Thanks!

My advice would be to wait to hear from Chiltern and seek advice from here on exactly what to say in your response.

Experts here will fully understand the difference (if any) in applying the discount from the wrong Railcard so will help you present your case on that matter most clearly and effectively to minimise the risk of penalty for that..

The short faring issue if of course a different problem but people can help with how you need to apologise for that to ensure the least worst outcome.

From now on tho make sure your tickets are 100% correct on every journey - and if you have any doubt ask at a ticket office before getting on the train if that is possible (ie if there is an open ticket office when you travel) - as Chiltern will now be auditing your ticket buying as part of the checks they will do after catching you.

But you will get good advice here.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Were the tickets you applied the incorrect railcard discount to also short fares? If so, applying the wrong railcard discount is academic because when calculating a settlement they will want reimbursing for all the occasions where you have short fared at teh full Anytime rate with no credit given for invalid tickets you did purchase.

If the tickets with the incorrect railcard were totally legitimate, except for applying a 16-25 railcard discount rather than 26-30 then I would make this very clear to Chiltern when you reply to them. I think it would be very harsh of them to charge you again for these journeys, based purely on an administrative error where there is no difference in fares (unless there was a gain in July or AUgust as noted above).

The wording of your reply to Chiltern will be critical. When it comes, upload a redacted copy of Chiltern's letter along with your draft reply and we will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[Blinkbonny]

There may have been some limited gain if use of the 18-25 discount enabled lower fare discounts during July and August, when IIRC there is a divergence in the terms of the two railcards?

 

[furlong]

I have recently been caught short faring on the Chiltern network and am expecting a letter from them.

Can you please tell us the precise details of the "short faring"?
Between which stations did you travel?
On what day of the week and at what time?
What ticket did you purchase - between which stations and what type (e.g. Off-Peak Return) and how much did you pay for it?
Where were you caught? (E.g. on the train just before or after some station, before/at/after a gateline at what station etc.)
When and how did you buy the ticket? (E.g. from the station ticket machine before boarding the train, on your phone just before the gateline at your destination etc.)