Failure to produce a valid ticket

[pedey00158]

Hi,

I could really do with some help and any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I was travelling to work the other morning. I arrived at Chorley station, I normally purchase my weekly saver and should have done so on this day. Unfortunately just before I got to the station I suffered low blood sugar levels (hypoglycemia) (I'm type 1 diabetic), as a result I had to take glucaose and felt unwell for a number of minutes. Because of this I completely forgot to purchase my weekly saver ticket and boarded the train.

I felt unwell for the majority of the journey and suffered another hypoglycemic episode shortly before arriving at my destination- Manchester Piccadilly. I was somewhat dazed as is often the case following such an episode and absent-mindedly presented my out of date weekly saver to the guard, who promptly took me to a Revenue Officer. He took down my details and told me Northern would contact me for my version of events.

I realised right away after the guard pointed it out that my ticket was out of date and I apologised to the Revenue Officer, I told him it was a genuine mistake on my part and offered to purchase a ticket.

I understand I should have pruchased a ticket before travelling and I know I would have done so had it not been for my diabetes. I have since purchased a month saver and a single ticket to represent my missed fare.

I plan to respond when I receive Northern's letter, and set out what happened and how sorry I am. I am thinking of attaching a letter from my diabetes nurse explaining the hypoglycemic event.

Do you think Northern could possibly drop any action, or let me off with a warning?. Or will I be issued with a Fixed Penalty Notice or be prosecuted?. It is a first offence of ay kind for me and I can show consistent purchase of week saver tickets.

I'm very worried as I work in the law and don't want any sort trouble.

 

[Hellfire]

You have broken railway bye laws by failing to purchase a valid ticket before boarding the train. That offence, in itself, does not give you a criminal record. Deliberately evading the fare is an offence under the Regulation of Railways Act. This does, on conviction, give you a criminal record but the burden of proof is higher.

If the circumstances you outline are correct my guess is that it is the bye law offence that Northern will use.

You should wait until you get the letter from Northern outlining the details of the offence they allege you have committed.

You should then reply giving the reasons why you did not buy a ticket before boarding the train and offer to settle the matter with them. Be apologetic, explain the situation and say his has never happened before.

By all means give whatever evidence you have of your health issue but be aware that people use all sorts of excuses so railway companies have become somewhat cynical. I'm not for a moment suggesting this is the situation in your case.

Northern's usual policy, providing this is the first time something like this has happened, is to request a payment of around £80. This is not a fine or a penalty fare, it is to defray their costs involved in handling the matter.

 

[6Gman]

As a fellow sufferer with blood sugar disorders I sympathise and would suggest that some medical evidence should be obtained from your GP or diabetic specialist/ specialist nurse.

But you may need to ponder the question of why, if you were unwell, you didn't stabilise your condition at Chorley before catching a later train? If you had been taken seriously ill it would surely be far safer at a station than en route?

 

[bb21]

I agree that Northern may exercise discretion on the matter if you explain the circumstances and show some medical proof.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I agree that Northern may exercise discretion on the matter if you explain the circumstances and show some medical proof.

I fully agree.

But . . . . I also agree with this observation:

By all means give whatever evidence you have of your health issue but be aware that people use all sorts of excuses so railway companies have become somewhat cynical. I'm not for a moment suggesting this is the situation in your case.

Without doing a statistical analysis, I can tell you that there is a disproportionate number of passengers (in relation to any average) who:
On the one occasion in which they do not hold a valid ticket (in contrast to having a valid ticket on all other journeys), coincidentally, experience one of Northern Rail's random ticket checks, and, coincidentally, have an exceptional medical condition which mitigates the failure to hold a valid ticket, and, coincidentally, have concerns about their legal career.

I draw no inferrence from these coincidences. But I do want to take the opportunity to point out that any explanation you might want to give to Northern Rail about that incident is likely to be viewed in the context of their random checks, in which high proportions of multiple coincidences would not be expected.

 

[Flamingo]

To coin a phrase, to have one hypo is unfortunate, to have two smacks of carelessness!

 

[6Gman]

To coin a phrase, to have one hypo is unfortunate, to have two smacks of carelessness!

To be fair (and I speak from personal experience) once your blood sugar levels go on a wobble it can take some sorting, and it's not unusual to get a further problem half an hour/ an hour later.

But if I was in the Northern Rail prosecutions unit I'd be looking for some substantial medical evidence, and be asking why the OP set out on the journey if feeling unwell.

The OP may wish to give some thought to these points.

 

[ian959]

As a Type 1 diabetic myself, my initial reaction to the OPs story is disbelief and certainly smacks of trying to think of an excuse to get out of the monetary penalty that is coming.

Hypoglycemia does happen of course but every diabetic should carry a decent kit to combat it effectively very quickly. So the chances of a second episode within a short space of time is possible but most unlikely. Certainly a diabetic having had a hypoglycemic episode would ordinarily do nothing, certainly not travel, until fully recovered from the episode. Being dazed as a result of a hypoglycemic episode is rare but can happen, but is most likely when very close to lapsing into a diabetic coma from extremely low blood sugar which would be most unusual in a normal routine like travelling to work. Hypoglycemic attacks are more likely when a diabetic is taken out of a normal routine.

This is my experience with Type 1 diabetes so I would be inclined to advise the OP that if he intends to pursue the hypoglycemic episode as an explanation for his behaviour then I would suspect that he would need a very, very detailed letter indeed from his diabetes management person, as I am sure that TOCs have heard this sort of story before. The advice offered by Hellfire is very sound indeed.

 

[jon0844]

That last post is out lf order. If you are telling the truth which I believe that you are (why post on here if youre not?!) disregard this deluded post.

I believe there have been many posts on here where people haven't told the whole truth, and that's before you get those about a 'friend' or the stories where loads of key information is omitted.

Why would people lie (and let me stress, I'm not saying the OP is here - but I can't possibly know either way and I'm merely talking generally) you might ask?

Because I believe some people will hope to at least convince us and seek to get advice or tips on how to get out of it.

Perhaps even hope someone might work somewhere that may be able to pull some strings.

And to do that, you need a convincing story, and the obligatory 'I work in x and can't afford a criminal record' line that always seems to be part of the sign off.

I would hope that nobody that dared show some cynicism or suspicion would ever be sacked for saying something that a lot of people will be thinking.

 

[samxool]

That last post is out lf order. If you are telling the truth which I believe that you are (why post on here if youre not?!) disregard this deluded post. If you are a railway employee Mr evoluzione, then in ideal world you would be sacked for such a distasteful cynical comment. Lets wait and see what happens here, would like to hear the end outcome.

The thing is, does low blood sugar levels make you forget to buy a train ticket??
Nope.....

 

[Hellfire]

Must be really handy that these "episodes" happen just before ticket purchases and RPI checks.

Must of saved you a fair bit in unpaid fairs eh?

Whatever your suspicions about the OP's story a reply framed in these terms is not at all helpful and is probably best not posted at all.

If you want to question the OP's story, and there is no reason why you shouldn't, I would refer you to the response from Dave Newcastle as a much more constructive way of doing so.

By the way it's 'fares' not 'fairs'.

 

[pedey00158]

Thank you for the very kind advice Hellfire and DaveNewcastle, it is very much appreciated.

In answer to the question why did i continue to travel, I've suffered from diabetes for a long time and hypos are an unfortunate occurrence, but I felt that once the glucose kicked in I should be fine. On top of that I needed to get to work. In hindsight I should maybe have stopped and made sure I was 100% before travelling. That was my fault for not doing so.

Health matters effect everybody different, I respect people's right to question my version of events and have an opinion. As such I don't wish to mention the hypos any further as I appreciate this is a rail forum not a medical one.

I plan write a small paragraph in my letter to Northern setting out the events and using them to explain why i did not buy a ticket. I don't seek to use them as an excuse as I realise what I did was wrong.

Just a final point; providing I pay said £80 penalty, that would be the end of matters? It would not end up on an enhanced CRB or cause problems when travelling to say America/Canada, or need disclosing to my employers?

 

[YorkshireBear]

The thing is, does low blood sugar levels make you forget to buy a train ticket??
Nope.....

Have you ever had low blood sugar??? I can't imagine you have as you must know what it is like if you have.

That is like me saying having a baby doesn't hurt....

Having low blood sugar causes your normal functions to struggle quite considerably, and once realised it is important you get them high again before you have a seizure which in itself is a very scary experience. The distraction offered by this is more than enough to forget to buy a ticket.

I am speaking as someone who's housemate of three years was a type 1 diabetic and i took him to hospital a fair few times after he dropped very very low. But even when slightly low his normal functions would reduce significantly. And even when realised the body takes a while to recover, in some cases he forgot who i was what degree he was doing and where he lived. So i would say forgetting to buy a rail ticket is very easy!
Although i do agree with other sentiments that you should have thought about not getting the train after the first signs.

Put your head back in your asse.



I do however agree with DaveNewcastle, you have to be careful putting this across as it seems like a coincidence and a half.

 

[tony6499]

As someone who injects insulin when I have a hypo then for that time nothing else matters just getting the glucose inside me, but I would certainly not board a train until I had felt fully recovered.

As others have said if you wish to pursue this line then you would indeed need a detailed letter from a Doctor to back up your claims.

 

[Hellfire]

Just a final point; providing I pay said £80 penalty, that would be the end of matters? It would not end up on an enhanced CRB or cause problems when travelling to say America/Canada, or need disclosing to my employers?

If Northern agree to accept the £80 that is the end of the matter. No offence will have been recorded and it certainly would not appear on a CRB.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Oh, by the way I should have set that you could be waiting some considerable time, possibly many weeks, for the letter from Northern. Just sit tight.

 

[6Gman]

The thing is, does low blood sugar levels make you forget to buy a train ticket??
Nope.....

I would suggest it might. But I'm a reactive hypoglycaemic, not a sufferer from Type 1 diabetes so perhaps it's different for them.

 

[ian959]

I would suggest it might. But I'm a reactive hypoglycaemic, not a sufferer from Type 1 diabetes so perhaps it's different for them.

I have never forgotten to do anything after suffering a hypoglycaemic episode... which is why I take what the OP says about not buying a ticket with a hefty degree of scepticism

 

[rdeez]

I have never forgotten to do anything after suffering a hypoglycaemic episode... which is why I take what the OP says about not buying a ticket with a hefty degree of scepticism

I really don't think any of us are in a position to judge, not least as no two people are the same. Northern will do that.

OP has received good advice as to what their next steps should be. Maybe we can and should leave it at that?