Failed to collect ticket - a solution?

[HST43257]

I’m sure this has probably come up before, so redirect me if required. There’s a lot of media stuff at the moment around people being penalised for tiny honest mistakes that they didn’t intend on making or had no choice with. Aka they aren’t trying to fare evade. This got me thinking about the people who select to collect their ticket from a ticket machine, then the ticket office is closed and ticket machine isn’t working, or just they forget. They’ve paid for the ticket, and as much as it’s wrong to board the train without a valid ticket on many services, what if on-train Revenue inspectors could simply input the reference, check the details and print it out instead? Is this already possible in some places? Seems sensible

 

[Lewisham2221]

I’m sure this has probably come up before, so redirect me if required. There’s a lot of media stuff at the moment around people being penalised for tiny honest mistakes that they didn’t intend on making or had no choice with. Aka they aren’t trying to fare evade. This got me thinking about the people who select to collect their ticket from a ticket machine, then the ticket office is closed and ticket machine isn’t working, or just they forget. They’ve paid for the ticket, and as much as it’s wrong to board the train without a valid ticket on many services, what if on-train Revenue inspectors could simply input the reference, check the details and print it out instead? Is this already possible in some places? Seems sensible

I can't comment for everywhere, but certainly in some places it is entirely possible for the guard to issue ToD.

 

[skyhigh]

The problem is that certain retailers will offer an automatic refund for uncollected TOD.

So buy making it acceptable to collect TOD on board you create a situation where people can effectively pay when challenged. If nobody checks tickets, it's a free ride.

 

[HST43257]

The problem is that certain retailers will offer an automatic refund for uncollected TOD.

So buy making it acceptable to collect TOD on board you create a situation where people can effectively pay when challenged. If nobody checks tickets, it's a free ride.

Does that refund need to be offered?

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Does that refund need to be offered?

Unless there can be a guarantee that services will always run, you need a facility to cancel pre puchased tickets when there's no train running. In recent times that would be industrial action, but there's also weather.

 

[JD1504]

I’m sure this has probably come up before, so redirect me if required. There’s a lot of media stuff at the moment around people being penalised for tiny honest mistakes that they didn’t intend on making or had no choice with. Aka they aren’t trying to fare evade. This got me thinking about the people who select to collect their ticket from a ticket machine, then the ticket office is closed and ticket machine isn’t working, or just they forget. They’ve paid for the ticket, and as much as it’s wrong to board the train without a valid ticket on many services, what if on-train Revenue inspectors could simply input the reference, check the details and print it out instead? Is this already possible in some places? Seems sensible

Conductors and inspectors are able to print out tickets on board BUT they also need to have the correct printer to do so. A conductor will usually carry the bulky printer with them as they will be selling tickets. An inspectors role is different though and while they can and do sell tickets where appropriate, they are ultimately on board to check for potential fare evasion, and to deal with it accordingly.

Mistakes get made and it should be taken on a case by case basis, but it’s worth noting the conditions of travel in that you are required to be able to produce a valid ticket for your entire journey at any point. It’s not always easy to work out who’s pulling a fast one and who’s genuinely made a mistake. Having a collection code is not a valid ticket and they can be refunded if not collected. While not the case for everyone, there are plenty that attempt to use it as an excuse - they purchase the ticket but do not collect it in the hope that they will not need to but hope it will get them out of a penalty fare if challenged.

If, in the rare occasion, the ticket machines are not working AND there is no available (or open) ticket office, especially at unmanned stations, this can be checked via an app available to train crew (although it doesn’t hurt to get a quick picture of the ‘out of order’ machine just as a back up. As this would be out of your control, you shouldn’t be issued a penalty fare, however if you are just provide your details and follow the appeal process to appeal - as long as all checks out, the penalty fare will be cancelled.
Alternatively, as you don’t have a valid ticket, you may be asked to purchase a new ticket and claim a refund on the original.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2024 ==

Unless there can be a guarantee that services will always run, you need a facility to cancel pre puchased tickets when there's no train running. In recent times that would be industrial action, but there's also weather.

If the train is cancelled, it’s important to follow the delay repay process (or potentially visit a ticket office, depending on how you purchased the tickets. If the service has not run, you will get a full refund without admin charges regardless of the ticket type you have.

If you just cancel a ticket that hasn’t been collected, you’re avoiding your fare, potentially for serious reasons, especially if you have made your journey albeit potentially arriving late.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

If you just cancel a ticket that hasn’t been collected, you’re avoiding your fare, potentially for serious reasons, especially if you have made your journey albeit potentially arriving late.

How are you avoiding a fare when you cancel a ticket before the time of the train on which it's valid? You may well get several days notification and decide to cancel the trip or use an alternative means of travel.

 

[Belperpete]

Someone can travel without collecting their ticket, and if not challenged then cancel it. The obvious solution to this issue would be to only allow the ticket to be cancelled up until time of departure. However, this would require TVMs at stations to have the option of cancelling the ticket, instead of issuing it. So if you turn up at the station and find the train has been cancelled, you can cancel the ticket without ever collecting it.

To expand on JD's point, tickets that potentially include a cross London tansfer have to be printed on mag-card stock, and not all guards are provided with suitable printers. TfW guards for example can only print paper roll tickets.

 

[skyhigh]

Conductors and inspectors are able to print out tickets on board BUT they also need to have the correct printer to do so.

Some conductors can. At my TOC a specific decision was made that they would not be permitted to.