Expanding Deansgate vs Piccadilly platforms 15/16

[Bletchleyite]

Piccadilly is clearly going to be the focus for all long distance services

Is it? TPE moved away from it; can you see them moving back, and with what capacity?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Is it? TPE moved away from it; can you see them moving back, and with what capacity?

I don’t think they will. Piccadilly will be the hub for rail services in Manchester as at present but I don’t think TPE will move back.

 

[Purple Orange]

Is it? TPE moved away from it; can you see them moving back, and with what capacity?

I’m talking post HS2/NPR in that sense. TPE services are, for all intents and purposes, NPR services. I don’t see any reason for Victoria to be used for any long-distance services if Liverpool-Manc-Leeds trains are being reversed out of Piccadilly. Granted that this is all 15-20 years away, but I see no scenario where the current infrastructure arrangements will change in the meantime (apart from possible metrolink infrastructure). Manchester will have to make do with what it has for a while longer.

 

[Halifaxlad]

So I reckon Eastlands will kill it, the question would be how quickly.

If it does, that's a major opportunity to build Victoria into a second "proper" major station for Manchester (I'd envisage something looking a bit like Leeds but more modern, perhaps 8 400m through platforms or similar - or maybe like a single "layer" of Berlin Hbf)

Whilst I would love to see the arena demolished (or rebuilt nearby) and Victoria developed properly with 400m long platforms, until then services from the West could be extended to Rochdale that has plenty of room for expansion, upon land that is owned by NR.

You could easily fit two 100m bays, one 250m bay and a 300m through platform in if you wanted to. Without modifying the subway in any way, although new beams would be required.

 

[Philip]

The problem with developing Victoria is that it is fairly limited as to what it can cater for in terms of regional and long distance services, without having to put more trains on the Ordsall chord. It can't efficiently serve anywhere points South/SE/SW. If Victoria was developed wouldn't it be sensible to then upgrade the Denton line to intercity status to provide a through route for services to the south?

At least Deansgate and the following two stations are in rail geographic location which can easily serve all four corners.

 

[cle]

The problem with developing Victoria is that it is fairly limited as to what it can cater for in terms of regional and long distance services, without having to put more trains on the Ordsall chord. It can't efficiently serve anywhere points South/SE/SW. If Victoria was developed wouldn't it be sensible to then upgrade the Denton line to intercity status to provide a through route for services to the south?

At least Deansgate and the following two stations are in rail geographic location which can easily serve all four corners.

I think this makes sense. If NPR happens Victoria will still have a main role of filtering the various Lancs routes onto the two Calder and Staly routes.

I can see a second purpose, in consolidating all Wales services there. So everything 'fast' to Chester, and then the Cardiff/West Wales service too which could run from Crewe via WBQ. It gives Crewe and Victoria a fast link also - and consolidates Warrington and Victoria with a solid service, against any future CLC changes.

That helps Piccadilly, and Castlefield in terms of the North Wales. Another Castlefield help could be to use the Philips Park route to reach Sheffield (not via Stockport though) - which could be an option for the Nottingham service. That could be augmented by a starter (p11 now free) at Piccadilly to Sheffield and on.

Denton would need a chord to reach Victoria in any good time, the Ashton route would be incredibly slow. But more eastward services out of Victoria would be welcome.

 

[vidal]

The old Ardwick to Philips Park junction line appears to be relatively free of obstructions. Does it have any merit if reinstituted with a triangle at either end?

James

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

The old Ardwick to Philips Park junction line appears to be relatively free of obstructions. Does it have any merit if reinstituted with a triangle at either end?

James

Possibly not sufficiently free of obstructions to enable re-opening. The embankment/viaduct carrying the line has largely been removed: its reinstatement probably wouldn't get approved thanks to the presence of residential properties along Viaduct Street. And a lower level construction would create the need for a level crossing or expensive underpass for Ashton Old Road. As such this route is nothing more than crayonista fantasy.

 

[vidal]

Possibly not sufficiently free of obstructions to enable re-opening. The embankment/viaduct carrying the line has largely been removed: its reinstatement probably wouldn't get approved thanks to the presence of residential properties along Viaduct Street. And a lower level construction would create the need for a level crossing or expensive underpass for Ashton Old Road. As such this route is nothing more than crayonista fantasy.

It's been a while since I was around there, it was still in use at the time! I was born close by in Clayton and remember light loco moves every now and again. Stuart Street Power station was still working.

It makes me feel old that I can recall Bradford Colliery.
James