Eurostar to other destinations

[cle]

Equally, with one sleeper a night or, at best, two day trains to Barcelona, there is limited flexibility on arrival / departure times by train.

And fares won't be cheap. Being fortunate enough to get free rail travel, including Europe, I only have to pay reservation fees on the TGV and the staff rate on Eurostar. And yet it is STILL cheaper by plane to Barcelona, and 6 hours quicker, with many more departure time options.

My two cents is that Eurostar will aim for destinations with substanital business flows within the 5 hour zone where the train can compete with air on journey time+hassle factor and get away with charging a premium. So Lyon, Geneva, Bordeaux (when the LGV SEA opens), Amsterdam and possibly Koln / Dusseldorf / Frankfurt. There might be the occasional special to the Med, but they would be one offs. (is there a plural of one off?)

However it all depends on the UK Border Agency being happy with arrangements, as there is a rumour that the DB plans for Koln have been delayed (again) for this reason.

I think they've been delayed due to delays in the stock arriving. I think Eurostar may have also mentioned Cologne at one point too. We'll see - it'll certainly be very exciting.

Eurostar already run to Avignon, which is basically the Med. It'd be prudent to start building this up to increase awareness - either through frequency (it's a summer only, once weekly return I believe) or by gradually extending it. It's a railhead but I imagine Aix and Marseille would also be popular. Perhaps Aix as one-way/set-down only so no need for passport stuff, initially.

And a Barcelona service would definitely stop at Perpignan and some other popular locations like Nimes, Montpellier and Narbonne, which would have shorter journey times than Barcelona.

 

[Gordon]

I will be interested to learn about how the requirements for passport controls, security and isolated platforms will be carried out at stations like Köln Hbf and Genève-Cornavin where there is very limited capacity.

There should be no problem with capacity at Genève Cornavin. Eurostar could and should have run to Geneva from day 1. Geneva has a huge population of British expats and other English speakers and flights to LOndon have been oversubscribed for years.

Cornavin station has isolated platforms for French services and has always been geared up for isolation with customs hall facilities etc (there even used to be fences), and there is plenty of space in the yards east of the station for a fenced siding

 

[Oscar]

There should be no problem with capacity at Genève Cornavin. Eurostar could and should have run to Geneva from day 1. Geneva has a huge population of British expats and other English speakers and flights to LOndon have been oversubscribed for years.

Cornavin station has isolated platforms for French services and has always been geared up for isolation with customs hall facilities etc (there even used to be fences), and there is plenty of space in the yards east of the station for a fenced siding

I presume a new platform would need to be built or one of the French isolated platforms used then, as I understand the rest of the station is short of capacity.

European rail may be expensive to run and expensive for passengers, but I do believe that lack of knowledge of the ticketing systems can also make it expensive. Knowing which booking engine to buy from at what time and knowing how to find the cheapest fares in the various booking engines is not necessarily straight forward. Of course knowing exactly when you will be travelling 3 months in advance is extremely helpful, particularly in France and Italy where there are often only one or two cheap Prem's (20€/25€) or very cheap Mini (9€) fares released on all trains that day.

Here is a glaring example of how a little knowledge can help:
München Hbf - LONDON on reiseauskunft.bahn.de has a cheapest fare of 149€ on 04.12.12. However, by adding in a 25 minute stop-over in Frankfurt to get an ICE to Brussels, the cheapest fare that day drops to 49€ (which I believe is competitive) as a new fare option appears.

However, I would of course agree that the train companies should not and do not expect passengers to have so much knowledge and that a "hidden" rail fare does not compete well with an obvious air fare.

 

[Bald Rick]

Geneva has a huge population of British expats and other English speakers and flights to LOndon have been oversubscribed for years.

Really? I regularly fly there and have never been on a full plane, even at £50 return. On the way back earlier this year it was 20% full at best.

 

[WestCoast]

Really? I regularly fly there and have never been on a full plane, even at £50 return. On the way back earlier this year it was 20% full at best.

I suspect that's because demand is very well catered for compared to the past - Geneva was surprisingly one of the first hotspots of the budget airline boom and is a big hub for easyJet Switzerland (a separate company). You can fly to Geneva Airport on regular flights from Heathrow, Gatwick, City, Luton, Stansted and Southend from December. Also, Bournemouth, Southampton and occasionally Manston. There are plans for flights from Cambridge and Oxford.

Traffic does also increase during the ski season.

 

[Gordon]

Really? I regularly fly there and have never been on a full plane, even at £50 return. On the way back earlier this year it was 20% full at best.

Strange. Every flight I have used in the past 5 years or so has been full to the brim.

I suspect that's because demand is very well catered for compared to the

Precisely - arguably proves that the market is there for a land alternative!

- Geneva was surprisingly one of the first hotspots of the budget airline boom

One of the reasons for that was the demise of Swissair. IN the past (and I’ve been watching planes at Geneva since I was 0.5 years old) Swissair ran loads of flights to and from Geneva, and most of its longer distance flights landed at both Zurich and Geneva, or vice versa before or after their trip to say South America. When that practice stopped (and Swissair went belly up) I suspect quite a lot of capacity was freed up which was filled by the budget carriers.

Another reason is that, even though Switzerland is the clichéd ‘perfect’ holiday destination for many Europeans, a large proportion of Swiss actually go on holiday to the ‘Costas’



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... Also, Bournemouth, Southampton and occasionally Manston. There are plans for flights from Cambridge and Oxford.
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Age test!

Anyone else remember when Carvairs flew Southend - Geneva? Like the TEE Rhinegold, not a service our family could ever afford at the time so I never got to sample either.

It was always irritating that you could stand at Hoek van Holland after the overnight ferry service from London / Harwich and had to watch a direct through coach to Geneva depart without being able to use it.

 

[radamfi]

According to

http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...nerous-british-restrictions.html#.UL5SRYWySHm

Eurostar will be running to Lyon and Aix-en-Provence as well as Avignon in 2013. Unfortunately, there will be an 80 minute stop in Lille on the return for passport control and baggage scan. What a farce! So you can forget about other destinations if such draconian measures are necessary.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Surely they could set up a temporary sterile area at each pick up point instead?

I hope they're going to check the train thoughroughly while the herd are being processed; one can imagine all manner and quantity of smuggled goods being taped to the undersides of the seats prior to Lille...

 

[34D]

There's a DB webpage about the planned services to London http://www.bahn.com/i/view/GBR/en/about/overview/ice-in-london.shtml only thing missing is a date.